5w20 A3/B4 hths=3.5 really ???????

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salgra

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Good day all,

As you may now I have dug into the oils that are 20 weight and claiming a3/b4.

I now have 4 one litre bottles of 4 different companies being 2x 0w20 and 2x 5w20 all 4 have the a3/b4 spec on them. ( called all 4 companies making sure hths was right, all 4 said yes it really is hths 3.5 and realy a3/b4)

I bit the bullet. i have send a 5w20 of for hths testing . result will come in about 2 weeks.
 
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From what I have read the HTHS limits for -w20 oils is less.

For example A5/B5 is usually between 2.9 and 3.5 (off top of my head)

But if it is a -w20 then the lower limit is only 2.6.

I will need to double check the limits for A3/B3/B4 on the ACEA website and post back.
 
Originally Posted By: salgra
Good day all,

As you may now I have dug into the oils that are 20 weight and claiming a3/b4.

I now have 4 one litre bottles of 4 different companies being 2x 0w20 and 2x 5w20 all 4 have the a3/b4 spec on them. ( called all 4 companies making sure hths was right, all 4 said yes it really is hths 3.5 and realy a3/b4)

I bit the bullet. i have send a 5w20 of for hths testing . result will come in about 2 weeks.




The Kroon oil is the only one that I know of that claims to be an a3/b4 20-weight. What are the others?

You're a true BITOG enthusiast to pay for independent lab HTHS tests on 4 oils!
 
Ok, thought it was something like that.

What is your concern?

That it might not be up to the job due to being on the lower end of the limit.

I had toyed with the idea of running a 5w20 or 0w20 but was not happy with the HTHS of 2.6 in the A5/B5 oils I was looking at.

But I am not a thin oil guru like Caterham so was winging it really.

Though if I was to use one of the -w20 oils that you are researching it will have HTHS of 3.5 which is within the limits for A5/B5 with a -w30 oil.

I need to do some more research to find out the relative importance of HTHS in relation to viscosity as I would be interested in trying a 5w20 or 0w20 if there is no risk to the engine, obviously the Volvo being a turbo diesel means I have a hot turbo to care for!
 
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How much is an HTHS test?

I have a similar question about Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W-20 available in the 'States. A PDS dated 2010 on this oil on Shell's website lists an HTHS of 2.64, yet the actual bottles of QSUD 5W-20 show ACEA A5. To my understanding, the lowest HTHS allowable under A5 is 2.9. I spoke with and have emailed Quaker State, and have not received an answer on this.
 
As mentioned above A5/B5 has a different lower limit in -w20 oils, 2.6.

I think this is why the OP is looking into -w20 A3/B3/B4 oils HTHS as if they are 3.5 then they are within be HTHS limit of a 0w30 or 5w30.

I would be interested in running 0w20 or 5w20 if the HTHS was 3.5, hoping Caterham posts up to help with my thoughts.
 
There's not really any purpose in running a 20-weight oil if it has the HTHS of a light 40-weight. It will give the same fuel economy characteristics of a light 40-weight, and so could not be considered an energy-conserving oil.

An a3/b4 20-weight makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
 
hths limit for a5/b5 is not 2.6 for sae 20.
it is 2.9

hths limit of 2.6 is only a1/b1 for sae 20 oils
and 2.9 for sae 30 oils
 
Originally Posted By: salgra

I bit the bullet. i have send a 5w20 of for hths testing . result will come in about 2 weeks.

thumbsup2.gif


Can't wait. Thank you for doing this.
 
Originally Posted By: salgra
hths limit for a5/b5 is not 2.6 for sae 20.
it is 2.9

hths limit of 2.6 is only a1/b1 for sae 20 oils
and 2.9 for sae 30 oils



Was sure I read that A5/B5 lower limit was also 2.6.

It was on the specs of Motul Specific 925B for Jaguar/Land Rover vehicles which is an A5/B5 oil.

One of the few 5w20 oils available easily in the UK from Opieoils and the one I was looking at for the Volvo.
 
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: salgra
hths limit for a5/b5 is not 2.6 for sae 20.
it is 2.9

hths limit of 2.6 is only a1/b1 for sae 20 oils
and 2.9 for sae 30 oils



Was sure I read that A5/B5 lower limit was also 2.6.

Salgra is correct on this. It's 2.9 minimum for A5/B5.

FYI, you can look up all the ACEA specifications (along with a bunch of others) here:
http://www.aftonchemical.com/Lists/Brochure/Attachments/40/Afton_Lube_Spec_Handbook_2012.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: salgra
I bit the bullet. i have send a 5w20 of for hths testing . result will come in about 2 weeks.

I'm also hoping that you're having the 40C and 100C viscosity tested since it's possible that these are wrong to achieve HT/HS of 3.5.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: bigjl
Originally Posted By: salgra
hths limit for a5/b5 is not 2.6 for sae 20.
it is 2.9

hths limit of 2.6 is only a1/b1 for sae 20 oils
and 2.9 for sae 30 oils



Was sure I read that A5/B5 lower limit was also 2.6.

Salgra is correct on this. It's 2.9 minimum for A5/B5.

FYI, you can look up all the ACEA specifications (along with a bunch of others) here:
http://www.aftonchemical.com/Lists/Brochure/Attachments/40/Afton_Lube_Spec_Handbook_2012.pdf



Not doubting his research atall.

I assume either there is an error in the info published by Motul relating to Motul Specific 5w20 or it is an oversight in the acea publication.

But the Motul Specific oil has a HTHS of 2.6 and is rated A5/B5 in the spec sheet.

Certainly an anomaly!
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
There's not really any purpose in running a 20-weight oil if it has the HTHS of a light 40-weight. It will give the same fuel economy characteristics of a light 40-weight, and so could not be considered an energy-conserving oil.

An a3/b4 20-weight makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.

HaHa, good one A_H.
That pretty much sums it up.

The Wolf Champion 0W-20 has a KV100 or 7.93cSt and the Eurol-Super-Lite 5W-20 a KV100 of only 7.5cSt. With such low KV100 spec's there's little doubt that both these oils have HTHSVs of about 2.6cP like most 20wt oils.

In all these cases of labelling a 0W/5W-20 as an ACEA A3/B4 oil is simply a mistake regardless of what the customer rep's tell you.
They do not actually publish or otherwise provide the HTHSV spec' for their 20wt oils, and IMO that's what lets them off the hook.
On this side of the Atlantic, Red Line Oil claims on their 0W-20 bottle that it is "Formulated to suit the requirements for ACEA A3, and B3/B4". Although their PDS info states the HTHSV is 2.7cP (btw it has been independantly tested at 3.0cP).
RL makes the exact same quoted claim on the back of all their bottles so when asked they will tell you the ACEA labelling is a mistake.

The take away from this is, if the HTHSV is not clearly provided, preferably to two decimal places, then take the ACEA labelling with a grain of salt.
 
Okay guys results came in today.
and gues.....
The HTHS of the oil is 2.7
in the report they allready mentioned the a3/b4 label on the bottle was wrong.

I find this quite anoying, i used the kroon 0w20 some time believing it has hths 3.5 as the confirmd on the phone.
The just said it was while it wasn't
 
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