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Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? #2818769
11/30/12 04:13 AM
11/30/12 04:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 19,988
CA
I understand that if you use anti-seize or some kind of lubricant, you need to reduce the recommended torque values for a bolt by about 20%.

However, if you use Loctite, do you need to do the same? I ask because Loctite is not a slick, greasy lubricant like anti-seize is. It is simply wet, and you are only putting a few drops on several threads (usually).

For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Thanks.


2011 Toyota Prius - 173k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 131K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2818778
11/30/12 05:10 AM
11/30/12 05:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,073
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,073
ME
No.

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2818809
11/30/12 07:00 AM
11/30/12 07:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,377
Chicago IL USA
scurvy Offline
scurvy  Offline
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Posts: 2,377
Chicago IL USA
Nope. Torque the bolt to the typical 'dry' torque value.


You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

06 VW Golf TDI: Shell Rotella T6 5w40, HU726/2x, EaBP90
12 Mazda 5: Castrol Edge 0w20, FL910s
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2818846
11/30/12 07:41 AM
11/30/12 07:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 169
Ontario Canada
Gotch Offline
Gotch  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 169
Ontario Canada
You may see a lot of different opinions on this. However, Loctite suggests that there be no change in "on-torque" values. So, torque to dry spec for all Loctite Purple, Blue, Red...

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2818875
11/30/12 08:22 AM
11/30/12 08:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
This is a question i have had for long time also.
I cant find a concrete answer.
I was also of the understanding that it didn't effect the torque value.

When GM started recommending it on the upper plastic intakes on 3800 GEN II engines they didn't change the torque spec.
When you tried the same torque there was no way, the bolt would snap or you could put a crack in the plastic bolt boss.

I tried the spec torque on clean dry threads and noted the torque angle at 10lb from the 5lb setting.
With the Loctite it was much more. 20% sounds about right as at 8lb i had the same angle with the loctite applied.

This was totally unscientific, just a hack measurement but yes there was a difference. You may want to try the same and see what you get.

I know the OEM bolts with pre coated dry thread locker there is no measurable difference.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2818879
11/30/12 08:27 AM
11/30/12 08:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,287
Canada
Tegger Offline
Tegger  Offline
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Posts: 2,287
Canada
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?


2013 Toyota RAV4 - 88,000 miles - Toyota 0W-20, Toyota filter
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger] #2818910
11/30/12 09:03 AM
11/30/12 09:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,021
New England
cchase Offline
cchase  Offline
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,021
New England
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



The brake caliper mounting bracket bolts (if what Critic is describing is what I think it is) often have Loctite on them. The other side of that though, is I don't know if I've paid attention to a torque spec on those, I always just sock them down.

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger] #2818969
11/30/12 09:46 AM
11/30/12 09:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,128
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Papa Bear Offline
Papa Bear  Offline
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,128
Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



+2


2016 Dodge GC Deep Cherry
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Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger] #2818975
11/30/12 09:52 AM
11/30/12 09:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,637
Toronto, Canada
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,637
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



I know that VW uses thread locker not only on the bracket bolts, but also on caliper sliding pins.


2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-27k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-163k miles
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2819006
11/30/12 10:18 AM
11/30/12 10:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 169
Ontario Canada
Gotch Offline
Gotch  Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 169
Ontario Canada

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Gotch] #2819037
11/30/12 10:41 AM
11/30/12 10:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
Benefits of Loctite® Threadlockers
•• Lock nuts and bolts against vibration and thermal expansion
•• Seal against corrosion and leakage
•• Reduce inventory costs
•• Suitable for all shapes and sizes of fasteners
•• Act as a thread lubricant
••Maintain critical adjustments of the assembly
•• No on-torque adjustments needed
•• High chemical resistance


Its the thread lubricant part that i wonder about. I have always understood torque figures were for clean dry threads unless otherwise specified.
Quote:
No on-torque adjustments needed

I cant figure this out. Do they mean you don't need to adjust the torque setting or you don't need to re torque?


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2819107
11/30/12 11:41 AM
11/30/12 11:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,496
VA
TFB1 Offline
TFB1  Offline
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Posts: 3,496
VA
I always thought torque specs were for clean & lightly lubricated threads, NOT dry... Anyway that's how I've torqued mine for the last 40 years or so, never had a issue...

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2819154
11/30/12 12:17 PM
11/30/12 12:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,406
USA
SOHCman Offline
SOHCman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,406
USA
Blue loctite on every nut and bolt I mess with, especially in the wheel well. This saves so much hastle with seized rusty threads when you live in the rust belt.

No change in torque either.


I urge people not to wait 100K to change out the fluid in their transfer case units. -Kestas
Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic] #2819201
11/30/12 12:54 PM
11/30/12 12:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,479
Chicago Area
mechtech2 Offline
mechtech2  Offline
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,479
Chicago Area
That reduced 20% torque thing is not an absolute, for sure.
This varies widely for a bunch of reasons. As someone pointed out somewhere in BITOG, on the threads is way different that also being on the mating surface. Mating surface lube really slicks thing up.

With a lubricant like Locktite on the threads, I certainly would not OVER torque any parts!
Go 5% under and sleep well.

Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: TFB1] #2819271
11/30/12 01:41 PM
11/30/12 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19,900
MA, Mittelfranken.de
I just checked a bunch of manuals and they spec clean dry threads.
Quote:
Torque nuts & bolts with clean and dry threads unless otherwise specified in the maintenance manual.
Do not lubricate nut or bolt threads unless otherwise specified in the maintenance manual.


This is a decent chart. I guess the best way is to find out what the FSM recommends wet/dry and use their torque specs.
20-30% for lube thread looks right though.

looking at 1/4" bolt (i was torquing a 6mm) my angle observation was very close.

http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
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