Recent Topics
BITOG using excessive CPU power?
by Kibitoshin
Today at 05:10 AM
Any news on what happened to this plane?
by Exhaustgases
Today at 02:36 AM
E4OD fluid ?
by Exhaustgases
Today at 02:23 AM
Update password ?
by meadows
Yesterday at 11:59 PM
Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder
by Reddy45
Yesterday at 11:56 PM
Nissan DLR put 0w20 in car that specs 5w30. worry?
by CrAlt
Yesterday at 10:40 PM
revive Nicd battery
by Donald
Yesterday at 10:27 PM
Need help finding an apartment for friend
by RazorsEdge
Yesterday at 10:07 PM
ceratec with redline 5w30?
by 08z06
Yesterday at 09:53 PM
does your COMCAST modem have weak wifi??
by edwardh1
Yesterday at 09:50 PM
I hate stuck thermostats
by jakewells
Yesterday at 09:49 PM
Mag1 75w90
by SavagePatch
Yesterday at 09:32 PM
Old batteries at HD
by bbhero
Yesterday at 09:27 PM
Buying a CPO Toyota - still get inspected?
by Parlay_Slow
Yesterday at 09:08 PM
Water Pump Paper Gasket With RTV? Longevity?
by nobb
Yesterday at 08:22 PM
Who makes Briggs & Stratton oil?
by spk2000
Yesterday at 08:13 PM
Shure stylus replacement
by aquariuscsm
Yesterday at 07:54 PM
Any 'crazy UCL overdose' fans out there?
by addyguy
Yesterday at 07:11 PM
Source for Castrol Edge Supercar 5w50 oil?
by Rainier42
Yesterday at 06:50 PM
Cherry vs orange hand cleaner
by JHZR2
Yesterday at 06:27 PM
Newest Members
mostdecent, T1TN, Piper58, dunlop0078, Truth_Syrup
65258 Registered Users
Who's Online
58 registered (BeerCan, aquariuscsm, Bighorn2500, antik, 4WD, BigCahuna, 5 invisible), 1045 Guests and 38 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
65258 Members
67 Forums
285505 Topics
4764739 Posts

Max Online: 3590 @ 01/24/17 08:07 PM
Donate to BITOG
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2818769 - 11/30/12 03:13 AM Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values?
The Critic Offline


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 19787
Loc: CA
I understand that if you use anti-seize or some kind of lubricant, you need to reduce the recommended torque values for a bolt by about 20%.

However, if you use Loctite, do you need to do the same? I ask because Loctite is not a slick, greasy lubricant like anti-seize is. It is simply wet, and you are only putting a few drops on several threads (usually).

For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Thanks.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Prius - 168k - ServicePro Dexos 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 128K - Idemitsu 5W-20

Top
#2818778 - 11/30/12 04:10 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 32629
Loc: ME
No.

Top
#2818809 - 11/30/12 06:00 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
scurvy Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 2372
Loc: Chicago IL USA
Nope. Torque the bolt to the typical 'dry' torque value.
_________________________
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

06 VW Golf TDI: Schaeffer 9k 5w40, HU726/2x, EaBP90
12 Mazda 5: Amsoil SSO 0w20, FL910S

Top
#2818846 - 11/30/12 06:41 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
Gotch Offline


Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 169
Loc: Ontario Canada
You may see a lot of different opinions on this. However, Loctite suggests that there be no change in "on-torque" values. So, torque to dry spec for all Loctite Purple, Blue, Red...

Top
#2818875 - 11/30/12 07:22 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18829
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
This is a question i have had for long time also.
I cant find a concrete answer.
I was also of the understanding that it didn't effect the torque value.

When GM started recommending it on the upper plastic intakes on 3800 GEN II engines they didn't change the torque spec.
When you tried the same torque there was no way, the bolt would snap or you could put a crack in the plastic bolt boss.

I tried the spec torque on clean dry threads and noted the torque angle at 10lb from the 5lb setting.
With the Loctite it was much more. 20% sounds about right as at 8lb i had the same angle with the loctite applied.

This was totally unscientific, just a hack measurement but yes there was a difference. You may want to try the same and see what you get.

I know the OEM bolts with pre coated dry thread locker there is no measurable difference.
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
#2818879 - 11/30/12 07:27 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
Tegger Offline


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2287
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?
_________________________
2013 Toyota RAV4 - 88,000 miles - Toyota 0W-20, Toyota filter

Top
#2818910 - 11/30/12 08:03 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger]
cchase Offline


Registered: 11/03/09
Posts: 4021
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



The brake caliper mounting bracket bolts (if what Critic is describing is what I think it is) often have Loctite on them. The other side of that though, is I don't know if I've paid attention to a torque spec on those, I always just sock them down.

Top
#2818969 - 11/30/12 08:46 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger]
Papa Bear Online   content


Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 7046
Loc: Leamington, ON, Canada ..... r...
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



+2
_________________________
2016 Dodge GC Deep Cherry
2013 SYM Wolf Classic
2011 Suzuki S40
https://www.hogsforhospice.com/

Friend of Bill W. since '89


Top
#2818975 - 11/30/12 08:52 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Tegger]
KrisZ Offline


Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 7456
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
For instance, if you use Loctite on the brake caliper mounting bracket bolts, would it be prudent to reduce the torque spec by 20%?

Do not change the torque figures.

I have never personally come across any brake assembly that required Loctite. Why are you wanting to use it?



I know that VW uses thread locker not only on the bracket bolts, but also on caliper sliding pins.
_________________________
2015 Dodge Grand Caravan-21k miles.
2006 Mazda 3-155k miles

Top
#2819006 - 11/30/12 09:18 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
Gotch Offline


Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 169
Loc: Ontario Canada

Top
#2819037 - 11/30/12 09:41 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: Gotch]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18829
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
Quote:
Benefits of Loctite® Threadlockers
•• Lock nuts and bolts against vibration and thermal expansion
•• Seal against corrosion and leakage
•• Reduce inventory costs
•• Suitable for all shapes and sizes of fasteners
•• Act as a thread lubricant
••Maintain critical adjustments of the assembly
•• No on-torque adjustments needed
•• High chemical resistance


Its the thread lubricant part that i wonder about. I have always understood torque figures were for clean dry threads unless otherwise specified.
Quote:
No on-torque adjustments needed

I cant figure this out. Do they mean you don't need to adjust the torque setting or you don't need to re torque?
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
#2819107 - 11/30/12 10:41 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
TFB1 Offline


Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 3496
Loc: VA
I always thought torque specs were for clean & lightly lubricated threads, NOT dry... Anyway that's how I've torqued mine for the last 40 years or so, never had a issue...

Top
#2819154 - 11/30/12 11:17 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
SOHCman Offline


Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 1286
Loc: USA
Blue loctite on every nut and bolt I mess with, especially in the wheel well. This saves so much hastle with seized rusty threads when you live in the rust belt.

No change in torque either.
_________________________
If you want to do the whole "I'm a complete drop-kick" thing properly, they're the cars you drive, complete with the "doof-doof" sound system, loud exhaust, low profile tires and so on. -B320i

Top
#2819201 - 11/30/12 11:54 AM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: The Critic]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
That reduced 20% torque thing is not an absolute, for sure.
This varies widely for a bunch of reasons. As someone pointed out somewhere in BITOG, on the threads is way different that also being on the mating surface. Mating surface lube really slicks thing up.

With a lubricant like Locktite on the threads, I certainly would not OVER torque any parts!
Go 5% under and sleep well.

Top
#2819271 - 11/30/12 12:41 PM Re: Loctite on bolts - effect on torque values? [Re: TFB1]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 18829
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
I just checked a bunch of manuals and they spec clean dry threads.
Quote:
Torque nuts & bolts with clean and dry threads unless otherwise specified in the maintenance manual.
Do not lubricate nut or bolt threads unless otherwise specified in the maintenance manual.


This is a decent chart. I guess the best way is to find out what the FSM recommends wet/dry and use their torque specs.
20-30% for lube thread looks right though.

looking at 1/4" bolt (i was torquing a 6mm) my angle observation was very close.

http://raskcycle.com/techtip/webdoc14.html
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >