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#2816079 - 11/27/12 03:29 PM Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
I had the KV @ 40 test done, too, which is not a standard test.

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#2816115 - 11/27/12 03:54 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
deven Online   content


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 3258
Loc: Massachusetts
From the numbers alone point of view...this oil leaves a lot to be desired. TBN of 7.4 is quite low in my opinion be it an ester oil or not.
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#2816144 - 11/27/12 04:21 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: deven]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: deven
From the numbers alone point of view...this oil leaves a lot to be desired. TBN of 7.4 is quite low in my opinion be it an ester oil or not.


Correct, but consider that it has a VI of about 200. Supposedly they're using next-gen basestocks.
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#2816160 - 11/27/12 04:40 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
deven Online   content


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 3258
Loc: Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: deven
From the numbers alone point of view...this oil leaves a lot to be desired. TBN of 7.4 is quite low in my opinion be it an ester oil or not.


Correct, but consider that it has a VI of about 200. Supposedly they're using next-gen basestocks.

Yes, I never go by the numbers alone. Numbers are numbers but the proof is always in the pudding itself.
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#2816165 - 11/27/12 04:48 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 8990
Loc: Pennsylbammyvania
That TBN is A LOT lower than the 11.2 quoted to me by Sarah Park from their tech dept.

I wonder who to believe??
(The calcium is decent, so maybe Blackstone? {is this who you used??} got it wrong?)

The moly is slightly higher than what I expected, and the boron is slightly lower than I was hoping for. frown

But if it is as shear stable as we suspect, and with that high VI, it is still great stuff, and fully blendable with their 0W-20 to get a perfect weight, VERY high VI brew. wink

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#2816172 - 11/27/12 04:58 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Possible they are using additives Blackstone doesn't test for, like antimony.
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#2816186 - 11/27/12 05:09 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10139
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
dparm, thanks for posting this.

Blackstone's KV100 value of only 15.5cSt is at lot lower (10.4%) than the Sustina PDS figure of 17.29cSt which drops the oil into the 40wt range. The lower KV100 figure results in a VI of only 172 so something is not right here.

It's worth noting that Blackstone VOA of the Sustina 0W-20 had a KV100 of 7.60cSt vs the PDS spec' of 7.94cSt; 4.3% lower. And when I first ran the oil I did notice an oil pressure drop somewhat in the first few miles and then stabilize. So just the process of heating the oil to test could result in some permanent shear.

Anyway, I'd ask Blackstone to test the 0W-50 KV100 spec' again; the difference is way too big which the VI doesn't support.

As for the other elemental values, the Phos, Moly and Boron figure are about 10% higher than for their 0W-20 oil, VOA is below:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2702321&page=2

I was hoping that the Phos' level would have been higher.

On balance, my opinion on this oil is dependant on resolving the KV100 spec' difference. I'm hoping the Blackstone figure is incorrect, but if they stand by it, I would be writing Sustina for an explanation.
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86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2816197 - 11/27/12 05:25 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Good point. I've sent Blackstone a note to request this be re-run.

If the Blackstone number holds true, I would actually be a bit concerned about the 0w50/0w20 mix I made (5:2 ratio) -- might be borderline too thin for my motor.
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#2816209 - 11/27/12 05:34 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10139
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Well lets not jump to any conclusions yet.
But if B'Stone is right, this simply isn't a 50wt oil and Sustina has some serious explaining to do.
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74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2816210 - 11/27/12 05:35 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Hopefully Eneos doesn't spout some "manufacturing variances" [censored]....
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#2816214 - 11/27/12 05:43 PM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10139
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
We're talking a full grade difference so there can be no dancing around that.
Lets hope B'Stone is wrong or the $hit will fly.
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74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2816801 - 11/28/12 11:12 AM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Blackstone sez:



Hi, Dan. We re-ran that viscosity test at 100C (twice, just to be sure), and came back with a very similar reading of 15.913 cSt, or 81.6 SUS. This is slightly higher than the test we ran yesterday, but still not quite in the SAE 50-weight range.

A slightly lower viscosity isn't all that unusual with multi-weight oils, however. We base our "should be" values on the observed ranges of the oils we've tested, and we find that oils with a larger gap between the winter-weight and the SAE-weight will tend to have a slightly lower viscosity range than a multi-weight with a smaller difference between the two numbers, or a straight-weight oil of the same viscosity.

For example, a 0W/50, 20W/50, and straight SAE 50-weight oil should theoretically all have the same viscosity range at 100C, but that's never been the case in any of the oils we've tested. The straight 50-weight oil should fall within the proper range for SAE 50 oil, but we expect the 20W/50 oil to read a bit lighter, and the 0W/50 oil to read even lighter still. We've tested samples from many different brands of 0W/50 oil, both virgin and used, and most fall at the light end of the 50-weight range or slightly lower.

Hope that helps. Let me know if there's anything else we can do for you. Thanks!
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#2816821 - 11/28/12 11:38 AM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
deven Online   content


Registered: 06/28/05
Posts: 3258
Loc: Massachusetts
^^So how do you feel about mixing 0w50 and 0w20 now?
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2016 Acura RLX Sports Hybrid(Royal Purple HPS 5w30 + RP 10-2808 oil filter)

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#2816823 - 11/28/12 11:40 AM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: deven]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13450
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: deven
^^So how do you feel about mixing 0w50 and 0w20 now?


A bit nervous, though I suspect it's still fine. The motor sheared Syntec 5w40 out of grade in only 5k, so I plan to sample at 2.5k to see how this is holding up.
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#2816828 - 11/28/12 11:45 AM Re: Eneos Sustina 0w50 -- VOA [Re: dparm]
LeakySeals Offline


Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 6517
Loc: Hudson, NH
dparm - Could be the oil not the engine. Only one way to find out.
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