LUCAS Transmission Additive and E4OD Torque Convertor Shudder...

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hello -

After reading a rather compelling article on this website about oil additives (specifically, Lucas) and how they cause foaming, and essentially, more serious problems, i realized that it may have caused a pretty significant problem with my F150. I will give you guys the background and let you decide. Just a precursor: if any of my transmission logic is in error, please let me know before i spread the ill wisdom elsewhere.

First, the background: the vehicle is a 93 f150 5.0, e4od transmission, bw1356 t-case, 8.8 rear and d44 front axle. 6" suspension and 3" body lift and 38" tires with stock 3.50 axle ratio. about a year and a half ago, i changed my transmission fluid and filter (dropped the pan down, made a huge mess, replaced whatever fluid fell out of the pan, not realizing that a good bit of fluid stays behind in the lines, cooler, convertor, and cylinder). At the same time, and under my own assumption that the fluid had likely never been changed, i added a quart of Lucas oil additive when i filled it up, so as to prevent any further damage (if only i'd seen the article about lucas and foam).

So, a few months later, the truck develops a very severe shake between 38 and 45mph, one that i could compare to driving on tires shaped like cam lobes. but, as replacing the wheels and tires (with bigger ones) didn't change anything, that probably rules out bent wheels and out-of-true tires. a bent spindle or axle are a possibility, but those would likely be visible from the outside and present at all speeds.

after reading about a notorious "torque convertor shudder" that these transmissions apparently develop after the fluid gets burned, and after numerous people told me that it was causing my problem, i thought i would look into it further. so ive got lucas oil additive, likely making the ATF foamier than a root beer float, causing intense heat and burning the fluid, rendering it useless. this is my assumption, and a fluid change will likely confirm. should i run some kind of cleaner through the transmission (BG quick clean, BG ATC, etc.) to clean out all the sludge that has been created over the last year and a half? will fresh fluid likely cure the shudder? let me know. thanks in advance,

- Bryan
 
"should i run some kind of cleaner through the transmission (BG quick clean, BG ATC, etc.) to clean out all the sludge that has been created over the last year and a half? yes will fresh fluid likely cure the shudder? possoibly"
 
I have a '90 E350 with the E4OD and it has a torque converter drain plug. If you can get it while it is fresh shut off you may get up to 2 gallons out of the torque converter. Mine had sat for a long time (and so drained back to the pan) and I only got about a gallon or so. When reinstalling the plug may want some permatex on the threads and be very careful to not cross thread.

What kind of tranny fluid did you put in? I believe it takes Mercon and if you were to put Type F in it would likely make for some very firm shifts and maybe could cause some shuddering as the Type F does not have friction modifiers IIRC.
 
I used to be under the impression of Lucas Trans Fix additive being the best. Even before reading anything here, I have grown to question it. It performed wonders in a 218000 mile 91 Lumina transmission that was slipping. Shortly after doing a fluid + filter change on a 96 STS with Lucas, the trans failed. The same on a 98 Taurus, then the same on my friend's 94 SLS, and oh yes, it made one more problem in a 94 Corsica, but it didn't fail. Maybe coincidence, yes, but it sure followed a trend. Since the last bad experience, we've not used Lucas...the serviced trannies are working great (96 Stratus, 97 Stratus, 93 Dakota, 95 Explorer). Lugeguard has been the choice additive. Trans fluid temps were checked during driving and idling with the 96 STS before and after the Lucas additive. I can say that trans oil temps were substantially lower with the Lucas additive (190-230'F before & 150-170'F after). Any ideas?
 
The issue you are describing sounds exactly like the T/C shudder Ford finally issued a TSB about.
What it consists of just changing the fluid form Mecron-III to Mercon-V. This was not issued until the I believe 95 with the 4R70W's, but since the E4OD is the same tranny save a few sensor I'd say you apply. Normally due to cost I'd say not to use Merc-V in a E4OD but seem you can justify the extra expense (~$2 more a bottle though is coming down in price).

Personally I swear by Lucas but if there is something better I will use it.
 
On the surface it sounds as if the Lucas screwed up the Dynamic Friction coefficient of the bulk fluid.

Put in some LC, run it until hot, and then drain as much of the fluid as possible, and replace with the specified fluid.

I don't know about the '93's, but the 98's used MerconV.
 
98s use Merc-V for because they run a 4R__W tranny (either a 70 or 100, only difference is the gear ratio).
 
You can avoid that big splash of ATF by suctioning off as much fluid as possible through the dipstick tube.

I use a Pela extractor purchased ($35.00 US)through a boat supply house. Have found it very useful in changing Transmission fluid, Power Steering fluid, gear box oil and small engine oil.
 
i am pretty sure i used mercon. when i replace the fluid again, should i use any kind of cleaner before i drain the fluid or just put fresh mercon atf in?

so lets go over this again: drop the trans pan (soak myself in tranny fluid), get rid of all that fluid, remove the "torque convertor drain plug" and drain that fluid, replace the filter, reinstall the pan, install the plug w/ some thread sealant (always a good idea, i agree), and fill the whole system up via the dipstick tube.

by the way, which motor do you have in your E350? will the fluid capacities, etc. vary with engine type? i have a 302 if that makes any difference. well let me know what you think i guess. thanks again,

- Bryan
 
I did not drop my pan as it had been done 20,000 miles previous and the filter changed then. So I drained the torque converter (TC), suctioned out the pan, ran it for about a minute, drained another 5 qts from the TC. Got a total of 12 qts out on a 16 qt system.

Yours may take less fluid. I have a 460 V8 and it is a Class C 27' motorhome. I was told it has the bigger, heavier duty version of the E4OD.

Hey, you and anyone with a Ford auto tranny should check out this really great Ford tranny site: LINK. It has a wealth of info including detailed descriptions of the differences between the various trannies and discussion of various upgrades, performance mods, etc. Even sell a deeper, extra capacity E4OD pan with a drain plug.
 
quote:

Originally posted by darkdan:
You CANNOT use Mercon V in any 4R100 or E40D transmission. Bad things will happen.

Given that, would you advise against Redline D4 ATF in my E4OD? It is not exactly a Mercon V, but says it can be used in place of either Mercon or Mercon V. Guess it's good I went with the Mobil One ATF after all. My final decision to stay with a strict Mercon was after emailing Baumann Engineering re the E4OD and they strongly stressed not messing around with fluid outside the factory specificaion.

I do have Redline D4 in the Aerostar's A4LD auto tranny, which specs Mercon--so far so good.
 
I would not advise using AMSOIL's Universal ATF in a 4R100.

Since I don't know diddly about Redline...if I were you I'd write them a letter. If things go bad then at least you have it in writing.

Supposedly there is too much of a good thing (FM in this case) for certain transmissions.

Most Mercon speced applications can use Mercon V. Most of them love it. For instance, older 4R70Ws.
 
quote:

Originally posted by darkdan:
Most Mercon speced applications can use Mercon V. Most of them love it.

So far the Aerostar seems to love it too.

Motorhome seems to be loving the M1 so guess I won't mess with a good thing.

Thanks
 
quote:

Originally posted by darkdan:

quote:

Originally posted by bowez:
98s use Merc-V for because they run a 4R__W tranny (either a 70 or 100, only difference is the gear ratio).

You CANNOT use Mercon V in any 4R100 or E40D transmission.

Bad things will happen.

http://v8sho.com/SHO/TSB01157ATFUsageChart.htm

There are many differences between the 4R70W and 4R100. It's not just the ratios.


Ok going to step on soap box here, My information comes directly form Jerry W. (the lead engineer on the 4R series trannies), have Ford Tranny Manauls and shop manauls. While yes there are mechanical differences they in no way are adversely affect by the difference between Mercon-III and Mercon-V. Mercon-V is basicly only Mercon-III with a shudder reduction additive in it.
 
wow thanks for the great response! good links too - ive learned a lot. i am now toying with the idea that the shaking is a bent axle shaft or spindle ...but i will flush the tranny anyway just for fun, and if the shudder goes away, then all the better.

SO: the final recommendation is:

Add Lube Control to old fluid.
run it until hot.
drain out the old fluid and lube control.
refill with mercon-V and NO additives.

does anybody have any suggestions varying from the information ive picked up thus far? if not, i will take care of it as soon as my wallet allows. also, any distinctions offered between auto rx, lubeguard, lube control, etc. would be great - im a bit confused by all of it. thanks

- Bryan
 
A full mercon-V flush should do it. I've flushed two '94 4R70W's w/ real bad shuttering and now they both shift like a dream. Make sure to drain radiator and torque converter along with dropping the pan. On one of the '94's it took 200 miles for the shutter to go away. No problems after 10,000 miles, so be patient. No snake oil needed
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