Honda Spark Plug Torque Dilemma

[The Critic]

I recently did a set of spark plugs on a Gen 3 CRV. The service manual states to use a light coat of anti-seize on the spark plug threads, and to torque to 13 ft-lbs. I used the Denso SKJ20DR-M11 plugs, which are the OES plugs and were also the factory-installed plugs.

I was discussing this with a well-respected Honda tech on another forum, and he said that many of the late-model Hondas have an issue with the spark plugs loosening overtime, sometimes causing massive damage. A search online shows that the plug loosening issue is mostly limited to the 3.5L Odysseys and Pilots, though occasionally it affects other models, such as BITOG member sciphi's Fit.

His opinion was to tighten the plug further - to 2/3rd of a turn once the gasket seats. Quite frankly, I have no idea what torquing to 13 ft-lbs (w/anti-seize on the threads) has translated to - maybe 1/2 turn?

Per Denso, the plugs should be tightened to 16-22 ft-lbs for dry threads, or 2/3 of a turn.

http://www.densoiridium.com/installationguide.php

My thoughts are that the plugs are tightened properly as per Honda's instructions, and since Honda should know what they are talking about, I did the job properly and have nothing to worry about. Besides, the original plugs that came out appear to have been installed dry and were probably tightened to 13 ft-lbs too....and they stayed tight for 116k.

Of course, sometimes field experience trumps the factory service manual as well, but I am not in the position to judge here.

Thoughts on this matter? TIA.

 

[randomhero439]

Once you feel the gasket start to compress, go to 2/3 turn. It will all of the sudden get alot harder to turn, right around that 2/3 mark. Good job, your done. If your really anal about it, go get a 1/4in torque wrench at Harbor Freight for $10-$20. If you do, dont feel silly... i went and got a torque wrench for spark plugs too

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: randomhero439
Once you feel the gasket start to compress, go to 2/3 turn. It will all of the sudden get alot harder to turn, right around that 2/3 mark. Good job, your done. If your really anal about it, go get a 1/4in torque wrench at Harbor Freight for $10-$20. If you do, dont feel silly... i went and got a torque wrench for spark plugs too

as did I.

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I've changed plugs about 9 times on Honda 4-cylinders and have always used anti-seize. I tighten them down to fairly tight, then snug them once more just a touch. They never back out and are easy to remove after another 100k.

 

[KrisZ]

2/3 of a turn for gasket type and 1/8 of a turn for tapered plugs and you're always correct no matter if antisieze was use or not.
Why overcomplicate such a simple process, especially with cheap HF tools that are as accurate at delivering torque as mule's foot?

 

[JHZR2]

hahaha! Id agree. But this is where a beam type wrench IMO is useful. At least the first time... You can keep track of rotation and have some idea of what the torque level is.

 

[Chris142]

Nobody torques spark plugs except for you 3. the plug bpx has directions using 2/3 of a turn or so

 

[HerrStig]

I got a nice 1/4 drive inch pound gauge from Marathon Tools in Franklin Mass. Military surplus. Still had the last cal stamp on it. They've got a website.

 

[mattd]

i always torque spark plugs, especially aluminum heads

 

[Rand]

I torque one or 2 to get an idea of how tight it is.

then on the knuckle busters you cant get to I do it by feel.

ie the back ones on ford freestar
transverse mount with about an hour of dissembling to even be able to get a hand near them.
wiper cowl, wipers, air intake, etc.

back ones on taurus with the duratech..

rear ones on a 4.0 sohc ranger

because I defy you to get a torque wrench on all of those and be more accurate.

 

[surfstar]

Hand tight (gasket sets) then 1/2-2/3 turn. No problem in alu. Mazda, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, GM Ecotec, engines so far.

 

[JOD]

I think you should have used angle torque in the first place. The torque specs are for a new assembly. Given how you described the plugs coming out of the head (and looking at the threads), my guess is that the issue isn't "weak threads" on many of these Hondas, but "under-torqued plugs". Much of the friction reading on your new torque wrench was just being generated by the dirty threads.

I know that a torque wrench gives you a nice number to feel good about, but it's not that precise at measuring joint tension, much more so in an aluminum head with dirty threads. If you feel that you gave them about 1/2 a turn and the spec is 2/3rd, you could always just give it another 1/3rd. Alternatively, you can go look up the angle torque spec for a used plug and re-torque them (it's going to be much less. Denso probably has a published spec for it).

 

[zloveraz]

I would email Nippon denso, NGK started this with their tech bulletin June 2011. Also keep in mind that typically all torque specs are published without anti seize added.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-0630111antisieze.pdf

http://www.densoaftermarket.com/contact.php - email link

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
2/3 of a turn for gasket type and 1/8 of a turn for tapered plugs and you're always correct no matter if antisieze was use or not.
Why overcomplicate such a simple process, especially with cheap HF tools that are as accurate at delivering torque as mule's foot?

This is correct^.
I would never use a torque wrench on a plug with a gasket.

 

[mattd]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
2/3 of a turn for gasket type and 1/8 of a turn for tapered plugs and you're always correct no matter if antisieze was use or not.
Why overcomplicate such a simple process, especially with cheap HF tools that are as accurate at delivering torque as mule's foot?

This is correct^.
I would never use a torque wrench on a plug with a gasket.


I disagree. whats your reasoning?

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: mattd
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
2/3 of a turn for gasket type and 1/8 of a turn for tapered plugs and you're always correct no matter if antisieze was use or not.
Why overcomplicate such a simple process, especially with cheap HF tools that are as accurate at delivering torque as mule's foot?

This is correct^.
I would never use a torque wrench on a plug with a gasket.


whats your reasoning?


+1 Torque specs are made for a reason.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: Bgallagher

+1 Torque specs are made for a reason.


For factory workers?

Wrench on a car long enough and I lost the need. Still use a 1/2" tq wrench for my lugs. Bought a 3/8", used it once, then shelved it. I imagine 90% of techs do it by feel also.

 

[Doog]

anti-seize...hand tight...1/2 turn. Never an issue.

 

[mattd]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: Bgallagher

+1 Torque specs are made for a reason.


For factory workers?

Wrench on a car long enough and I lost the need. Still use a 1/2" tq wrench for my lugs. Bought a 3/8", used it once, then shelved it. I imagine 90% of techs do it by feel also.


alot depends on the vehicle for me. iron heads torque wrench not needed. vehicles with few and sensitive threads (ford vans) i use them.

 

[mechtech2]

My reasoning is that the 2/3 turn is more accurate and easier.
This is for NEW gasket type plugs.
1/8 turn [never more, sometimes a bit less]for tapered seat 5/8" plugs is also more accurate and easier, but on these sometimes I use a TW for appearance sake.