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Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2788799 10/31/12 10:02 AM
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SteveSRT8 Offline
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ZZZZzzz...

Are we hashing this out again?


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Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Trav] #2788835 10/31/12 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
So show me a high PAO content oil that sells at the same price as M1

PU $28 5 qts at wally's 100% PAO/GTL base stock. Confirmed by Pennzoil to a forum member here just a couple of weeks ago.
I don't know about you but for $2.50 more I'll take the real deal.


I may be wrong,but I could swear I read in Pennzoil`s Q and A post here that they`d said Ultra was 100% grp III basestock.


1996 Nissan 300ZX 5-speed,Arctic Pearl(#175 of 300)
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 10W30
2012 Honda Accord Coupe EX-L 2.4,auto,San Marino Red
Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 10W30

Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: aquariuscsm] #2789319 10/31/12 06:19 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I may be wrong,but I could swear I read in Pennzoil`s Q and A post here that they`d said Ultra was 100% grp III basestock.

It once was, but the new API SN formulation with very low NOACK numbers isn't 100% group III.


2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2789336 10/31/12 06:36 PM
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Clevy Offline
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I thought platinum was the group 3 and ultra a group 4. Otherwise why even have the 2 different products.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: JHZR2] #2789479 10/31/12 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: SaturnIonVue


of Mobil's CoolAid and accepted the big switch from them too. Nevertheless, I'm of the belief that PAO IS superior to GpIII as a base-stock product. Why? Because no one seems to know or care about what levels of impurities that may still be IN GpIII oils as apposed to what impurities were never IN PAO based oils to begin with. What made me switch to synthetic oil in the first place was that PAO was a "pure" engineered oil with none of the thousands of harmful species of molocules that were in mineral oils even after refining.



Show me which of those superioroity metrics really holds true over your OCI. Again, not trying to be a Grp III apologist, just saying, because if you arent pushing to the point where the PAO is being used in a useful way, why pay for a pure PAO oil? DOubt it will make any difference in an ion or vue or most cars.

As for the lack of knowing what impurities are in there, you must be joking. IR, GC and a few other techniques let us easily know the basis of chemical content, plus how much sulfur, aromatics and other things there would be in the basestock.


No, I'm not joking at all about my concerns of what may be left over in the GpIII process. I've never heard or read of discussions about what wax--slack, or otherwise, what aromatics or other nasties may be left in there. Probably you're right--OCI to OCI maybe it doesn't matter, but over many OCI's maybe it does. I bought into synthetic oil about 25+ years ago when synthetic and PAO were one and the same thing, and I have used nothing but "synthetics" since then. Just because the oil blenders changed their secret recipies of herbs and spices doesn't mean I have to accept or believe the switch was for MY personal benefit. I think we know that how PAO is/was produced precluded nasties out of the product, and I was then, and still I am convinced that PAO base-stock is a superior base-stock than is other groups of base-stock. I am of the generation post SB/SC grade oils--of the same era when you could not buy motor oil anywhere else but from a gas station! At the time, Pennsylvania crude oils dominated the market. What you got then was an improvement over SA and SB but for decades SC, amd SD, and maybe even SE had a witches brew of every nasty imaginable--and your crankcase and dipstick would prove it to you!

Today, occasionally a thread comes along about "is it true that Quaker State and Pennzoil sludged up engines once upon a time" and it seems that more often than not various ones will answer: "no, that is an old wives tale" when I know for a certainty that those and some other oils did sludge up even well kept engines!! So, for some younger car lovers on here the issue becomes a just a myth as the deniers (who may not have even been born then, let alone driving and caring for cars) make their comments of denial. My concerns about GpIII vs. GpIV synthetic oils has its apologist and deniers already. I don't think we have seen many or any true reports of GpIII synthetic oils doing what Quaker and Pennzoil oils did 30-40 or so years ago. Believe me, I'm all for progress, especially in the state of the art of motor oils--it's just that when a BIG Switch comes along from what has been defined "as the best" to "it's just as good" I have to wonder who benefits--me and you--or just "them."

However, now that I think about it, I don't really care for CoolAid very much anymore! smile

Last edited by SaturnIonVue; 10/31/12 08:55 PM.
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2789492 10/31/12 09:02 PM
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horse

Am I the first to post the flogging? happy


2016 Golf Sportwagen 5MT M1 0w40 LC20 RLI BioPlus
my other vehicle is a Roth IRA
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Clevy] #2789569 10/31/12 10:22 PM
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Quattro Pete Offline
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Otherwise why even have the 2 different products.

Why does Castrol have Edge with SPT and Edge with Titanium?

Why does XOM have Mobil1 and Mobil1 EP?



2002 530i   2015 Q5 3.0T   2018 Charger SRT
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2790094 11/01/12 02:41 PM
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The answer is.......NO ONE KNOWS. They never did know, they never will know and this same question will be asked at least another 500 times by next November 1. By the way, there still won't be an answer then either.

Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: RTexasF] #2790450 11/01/12 09:11 PM
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What we do know is that Neo oil and Redline oils are mostly Ester oils and Mobil 1 and Amsoil are a combo of PAO's Group III's and some Esters for flavor blush


"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Sir Winston Churchill
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2791556 11/03/12 07:52 AM
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Interestingly,

M1 continues to perform as expected, without coking turbo bearing areas, without creating deposits in troublesome engines and holding up well in extended drain intervals.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2791788 11/03/12 01:39 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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Quote:
The answer to that is M1 is a blend of about 13 different types of base oils.



Really? DO you have some documentation to share?


Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: MolaKule] #2792183 11/03/12 08:09 PM
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tig1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
The answer to that is M1 is a blend of about 13 different types of base oils.



Really? DO you have some documentation to share?


In this video XM says up to 15 differant base stocks and additives. Scrool down to "not all synthetic oils are equal"



" at the 1:20 mark of the video.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Videos/Videos.aspx

Last edited by tig1; 11/03/12 08:11 PM.

2007 Ford Fusion 258,000 miles
M1 5-20HM
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M1 0-20EP
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
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Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2792264 11/03/12 10:10 PM
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He didn't say there are 15 different types of basestocks in Mobil 1.

I think he must be counting all of the components of the Performance Improvement (PI) additive package AND types of base stocks.

There are currently about 5 major API groupings of basestocks and within each major Grouping there could be subcategories of chemistry.

For example, under GroupV there could be subcategories of chemistry such as esters, alkylated naphthalenes, oil soluble PAG, polymerics such as butylenes, etc.

Under API GroupIV there is only PAO. Now we know that various viscosities of PAO's are mixed to arrive at a specific viscosity, but this is one type of base oil. You cannot count the various viscosities of one type of base oil and include those as different "types."

And then there is GroupIII which in my view (I know, I am a "purist" holdout) is not a synthetic, but has some performance properties equal to GroupIV synthetics.

We know from Mobil patents that these patents allow the use of GroupIII, IV, and V base oils for their "synthetic" line of oils.


Last edited by MolaKule; 11/03/12 10:21 PM.

Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2792285 11/03/12 10:24 PM
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MolaKule Offline
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Quote:
I think we know that how PAO is/was produced precluded nasties out of the product, and I was then, and still I am convinced that PAO base-stock is a superior base-stock than is other groups of base-stock.


I don't agree. The GroupV base stocks are generally superior but their cost is still high such that various types of basestocks have to be blended to keep the cost within the average consumers pocketbook, and still maintain performance.

I think you have to look at the global picture when it comes to formulated lubricants and examine the final performance of the formulated lubricant, and not worry too much about the basestock that is only half of the picture.

Additive technology is becoming advanced to the point that GroupII and II+ basestocks can almost have the same level of performance as Blends.

Last edited by MolaKule; 11/03/12 10:32 PM.

Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "You know, that term "dark matter" has always perplexed me. It fallaciously implies that the 95% of our universe that cannot be observed is some amorphous, eventless emptiness."
Amita Ramanujan: "I'm sorry?"
Dr. Larry Fleinhardt: "I guess it's all too human. Instead of admitting to the present limits of our knowledge, we just declare things to be unknowable." NUMB3RS
Re: Is Mobil One PAO or Group III based??? [Re: Fred H.] #2792434 11/04/12 04:43 AM
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I'm sort of agreeing with Trav back in the early pages.

Synthetic implies something, and not a performance level. The performance level was demonstrated only by the use of synthetics back in the day. Same days that Shell advertised their XHVI in an appropriate and honest manner.

The gold watch analogy is a good one...it's completely as functional (a performance measure), and goes one step further in being the same colour.

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