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hy-per lube zinc replacement additive #2786001 10/28/12 02:23 AM
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DanMiller Offline OP
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hi anyone use the hyperlube zinc replacement additive

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786004 10/28/12 02:53 AM
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No, but I have seen it on the shelf at O'rileys for a while and wondered the actual composition, anyone got a UOA?


1999 BMW M3 109k
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2013 328ix 78k
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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786047 10/28/12 07:08 AM
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If I had a flat tappet engine that needed additional zinc I would use Amsoil ZROD oil rather than an additive.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Donald] #2786057 10/28/12 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Donald
If I had a flat tappet engine that needed additional zinc I would use Amsoil ZROD oil rather than an additive.


Agreed.


03 GMC Sierra 4x4 200k M1 0-40+PU
00 Saturn SL2 89 YO Lady Car 92k, Edge Ext
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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786082 10/28/12 08:08 AM
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I dont recall it having any real zinc in it. Redline or zddplus, zddpmax is actual Zinc and phos..


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: ddtmoto] #2786099 10/28/12 08:42 AM
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Be careful if you use zddplus, as it is VERY concentrated.

I was playing around with it and SuperTech Full Syn and got Zn 1859 and 1860 ppm on two batches, when mixed 60ml to 5 quarts. crzy

Last edited by OilNerd; 10/28/12 08:44 AM. Reason: brand correction

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: ddtmoto] #2786119 10/28/12 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: ddtmoto
I dont recall it having any real zinc in it. Redline or zddplus, zddpmax is actual Zinc and phos..



Or Crane Cams Break in Lube

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2269196

I can confirm that adding 9ml (0.3 oz) of this break in lube to 6 quarts of oil will raise zinc by 200 ppm



Last edited by Loobed; 10/28/12 09:04 AM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Loobed] #2786319 10/28/12 12:48 PM
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Hi Sorry I should have mentioned the Hy-Per Lube Zinc Replacement doesn't have an Zinc in it. Its a Synthetic Ester Based Product that claims to work better than ZDDP based on Independant testing. I have looked on the Interent and on BITOG and I can't find that much information on it. The company has been around for 50 years or so yet not much information. They make a Coolant Wetter product that seems to be much more popular.

If I was looking to add ZDDP I would buy the Lucas Break In additive as I have heard that is a good product.

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/28/12 12:48 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786419 10/28/12 03:09 PM
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I have used this kind of polymer chemistry in reduced ZDDP (experimental) formulations and I found I could reduce viscosity and still lower wear rates.

Suggested dossge ratio is about 1oz Hyper:13oz PCMO so what I suggest (since I don't see any viscosity or VII data) is adding 2-3oz of this stuff to a quart of oil and have the mix analyzed to make sure the VOA viscosity is still in the 0w20 range or whatever range of oil viscosity you may be using.

The polymer ester I use is about 140 weight (approx. 35 cSt) in its virgin form, but I suspect this stuff is "cut-down" to a 20 or 30 weight.


Last edited by MolaKule; 10/28/12 03:11 PM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786434 10/28/12 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Hi Sorry I should have mentioned the Hy-Per Lube Zinc Replacement doesn't have an Zinc in it. Its a Synthetic Ester Based Product that claims to work better than ZDDP based on Independant testing. I have looked on the Interent and on BITOG and I can't find that much information on it. The company has been around for 50 years or so yet not much information. They make a Coolant Wetter product that seems to be much more popular.

If I was looking to add ZDDP I would buy the Lucas Break In additive as I have heard that is a good product.


It seems like it's similar to Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: demarpaint] #2786477 10/28/12 04:38 PM
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Hi yes it seems similar to Lubegard but I can't get Lubegard Biotech in my area. I am hoping this is just as good but there isn't that much information on it.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2786484 10/28/12 04:46 PM
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Hi what polymer Ester do you use ?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786501 10/28/12 05:02 PM
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I don't reveal the type or source.

I am confident the LubeGuard LXE esters and the HyperLube polymer esters are NOT the same chemistry.

The one thing that we should question with any additive of this type is how the Mfg. determined the dosage levels considering they both say their third-party-additives (TPA) can be used in conventional, Blends, and full synthetic oils?

Hopefully, they did extensive testing.


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2786537 10/28/12 05:34 PM
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Hi I just read that Hy-per Lube was started by Howard Hilton in the 1950's and there is a Howard Hilton that is President on Internation Lubricatants Inc ( Lubegard ) It could be there is no relation today but it interesting...

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2786634 10/28/12 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I have used this kind of polymer chemistry in reduced ZDDP (experimental) formulations and I found I could reduce viscosity and still lower wear rates.

Suggested dossge ratio is about 1oz Hyper:13oz PCMO so what I suggest (since I don't see any viscosity or VII data) is adding 2-3oz of this stuff to a quart of oil and have the mix analyzed to make sure the VOA viscosity is still in the 0w20 range or whatever range of oil viscosity you may be using.




So Hy-per lube isn't just another Lucas type oil stabilizer?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786653 10/28/12 07:09 PM
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I've got 5 bottles of this in my basement. When I emailed the company about using it in a shared sump bike they said not to. I've used it in my mustang and truck with no noticeable running differences or fuel economy increases.
They told me it's sone kind of polymer blend that coats metal creating a super slick surface. Mos2 works better and costs less. At least the mos2 showed a fuel economy increase.
I never did a uoa so I cannot comment on wear rates. It is very thick in the bottle


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2786662 10/28/12 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
I've got 5 bottles of this in my basement. When I emailed the company about using it in a shared sump bike they said not to. I've used it in my mustang and truck with no noticeable running differences or fuel economy increases.
They told me it's sone kind of polymer blend that coats metal creating a super slick surface. Mos2 works better and costs less. At least the mos2 showed a fuel economy increase.
I never did a uoa so I cannot comment on wear rates. It is very thick in the bottle



How much hyper lube did you put in the engine and how much MOS2 did you use?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2786686 10/28/12 07:34 PM
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What brand of Mos2 did you use Lubro Moly ?, I tried it (Lubro Moly ) and I didn't notice any differences to be fair I didn't leave it in that long. Also how much did you use ?

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/28/12 07:35 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786688 10/28/12 07:36 PM
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I tried the hyper lube when I first bought my mustang so around 4 years ago. I didn't discover mos2 until about 2 years ago.
So it was about 2 years apart in treating the mustang.
I used a full bottle of the hyper-lube,and a full can of mos2.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2786690 10/28/12 07:39 PM
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Do you ever to UOA are your wear number lower

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786761 10/28/12 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Hi I just read that Hy-per Lube was started by Howard Hilton in the 1950's and there is a Howard Hilton that is President on Internation Lubricatants Inc ( Lubegard ) It could be there is no relation today but it interesting...



Where did you read that?

Frank Erickson is the founder and CEO of ILI.

What IS interesting is that both companies are headquarted in Seattle.

However, Seattle has been know to be the home of many entrepeneurs.


Last edited by MolaKule; 10/28/12 09:07 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2786775 10/28/12 09:23 PM
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http://www.hyperlube.com/About-Us-c2.html Harold Hilton Started Hy-per Lube and this link http://www.manta.com/g/mmdsnnl/harold-hilton shows Harold Hilton as International Lubricants Inc. President not sure how current that is or if its the same person.

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/28/12 09:32 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786792 10/28/12 09:45 PM
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No. I never got any uoa done. It was before I even knew they existed,before I knew of this site.
Maybe next year,since I still have some however my mustangs new engine will not be much of a test mule considering as soon as I fire the engine I'm going to use cera-tec,then on the next oil change a bottle of mos2,then half a can of mos2 until the next cera-tec treatment is due.
Going to do the same in the Harley,maybe I can use my winter truck as a test mule however it only gets used when the snow flies. And I've already used mos2 in it,with a fuel economy increase.
Now that I've found mos2 I don't know that I need to use anything else. Mos2 is also cheaper per treatment than the hyper lube.
If someone wants to do a run of this stuff in their vehicle as a test subject I'll mail them a bottle,if they will post their personal results as in a before and after type deal.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2786800 10/28/12 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
No. I never got any uoa done. It was before I even knew they existed,before I knew of this site.
Maybe next year,since I still have some however my mustangs new engine will not be much of a test mule considering as soon as I fire the engine I'm going to use cera-tec,then on the next oil change a bottle of mos2,then half a can of mos2 until the next cera-tec treatment is due.
Going to do the same in the Harley,maybe I can use my winter truck as a test mule however it only gets used when the snow flies. And I've already used mos2 in it,with a fuel economy increase.
Now that I've found mos2 I don't know that I need to use anything else. Mos2 is also cheaper per treatment than the hyper lube.
If someone wants to do a run of this stuff in their vehicle as a test subject I'll mail them a bottle,if they will post their personal results as in a before and after type deal.


PM sent.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786810 10/28/12 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: DanMiller
What brand of Mos2 did you use Lubro Moly ?, I tried it (Lubro Moly ) and I didn't notice any differences to be fair I didn't leave it in that long. Also how much did you use ?

I used the liqui-moly brand. You have to leave it in for the whole interval. It takes time to plate the metal surfaces and needs heat and pressure to work.
In my experience with mos2 fuel economy was unaffected until the 3rd tank of fuel. I keep track of mileage of every tank of fuel in all of my vehicles. My mustang and truck both saw a mileage increase of 1km per liter of fuel averaged over the entire tank.
I've got multiple iPhone apps to calculate mileage. I always calculate it on fuel put in against kms driven.
While driving to BC I got 650kms from a single tank of fuel all highway in the truck. Average was always 450 with mixed city/highway.
It is noticeable when I don't use the mos2. If I use it,then run out the interval,then new oil with no mos2 fuel mileage gradually declines back to 450 a tank by the end of the untreated oils change interval. It works well enough that everytime I see it I buy it because it's very hard to find.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2786822 10/28/12 10:14 PM
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I found it (Lubro Moly) in Winnipeg in my local NAPA , I had to ask for it as they keep in in the back and not out on display. I think it was around $8 for 10oz (300 ML ) . I have read that some people only use around 2 OZs ( 60 ML ) per oil change.

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/28/12 10:22 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2786903 10/29/12 12:15 AM
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I found an interesting link that describes Polymer esters ( hy-per lube Zinc Replacement )

Click on the link then click on the Chapter 5 in the table of contents

http://books.google.ca/books?id=g3v3MXzJ...p;q&f=false




Last edited by DanMiller; 10/29/12 12:16 AM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2788371 10/30/12 06:32 PM
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That link didn't work for me.

I looked at some HyperLube at our local O'Reilly's yesterday and it appears to be about a 35 cSt oil.


Last edited by MolaKule; 10/30/12 06:36 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2788426 10/30/12 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
That link didn't work for me.

I looked at some HyperLube at our local O'Reilly's yesterday and it appears to be about a 35 cSt oil.



At the top of the page, next to the word GOOGLE, it will say "what is polymer Ester Oil." Click on the blue box with the magnifying glass icon. The google search page will come up, and the first thing listed is a purple book. Click on that and it will bring up the right page. The Polymer Ester is under section 5.3.3. You may need to scroll up the page a little.







Last edited by Loobed; 10/30/12 08:00 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2788440 10/30/12 08:11 PM
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http://books.google.ca/books?id=g3v3MXzJEZsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hopefully this link is Better.

What is 35 cST in layman words 50 Weight ?

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/30/12 08:13 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2788465 10/30/12 08:45 PM
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I tried the link. It took me to a book. What are the cliffnotes on this stuff,or polymer esters as a whole.
Educate me please


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2788514 10/30/12 09:57 PM
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I am no expert but what I read is that the Polymer Esters in the Book show they are an effective anti wear oil.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2788515 10/30/12 09:58 PM
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Quote:
What is 35 cST in layman words 50 Weight ?




http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2788521 10/30/12 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: DanMiller
I am no expert but what I read is that the Polymer Esters in the Book show they are an effective anti wear oil.

Alright. I wonder at what ratio it has to be to be effective,and what kind of wear reduction is to be expected,and how long is it effective for.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #2788537 10/30/12 10:30 PM
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hy-per lube Zinc replacement is made by either Akzo or Italian company Italmatch KETJENLUBE 135 ( Found that in a a BITOG Post ) I haven't found much about that product but it looks like hy-per lube just renames it and puts it in a fancy bottle.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2295242

http://www.italmatch.it/cm/articoli/Arese%20brochure%2001.pdf ( link was down but it up now )

www.optimal.co.th/uploads/Lube%20Oil%20News%20Vol%2011.pdf ( ketjenlube 135 )

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/30/12 10:31 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2788544 10/30/12 10:35 PM
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I read the Viscosity Charts but don't I need to know the temp ?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2788545 10/30/12 10:37 PM
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Chemically speaking, these esters are co-polymers of alphaolefins and dicarboxylic acids which are esterified with various alcohols and are shear-stable and virtually smokeless.

I have spoken about these esters previously as those esters which aid in the reduction of ZDDP content and do not show up in VOA/UOA's.

There is one oil mfg that's using these esters with PAO and has no ZDDP whatsoever.


Last edited by MolaKule; 10/30/12 10:39 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2788561 10/30/12 10:52 PM
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I have read that Ketjenlube is used in German Castrol 0W30 I am not sure how true that is but I read it in a few places. It sounds like Hy-per Lube Zinc Replacement is a safe product to use they recomment 12oz per 4-6 quarts I am not sure if adding more would benefit or not ?

Last edited by DanMiller; 10/30/12 10:52 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2788573 10/30/12 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Chemically speaking, these esters are co-polymers of alphaolefins and dicarboxylic acids which are esterified with various alcohols and are shear-stable and virtually smokeless.

I have spoken about these esters previously as those esters which aid in the reduction of ZDDP content and do not show up in VOA/UOA's.

There is one oil mfg that's using these esters with PAO and has no ZDDP whatsoever.

Now that is interesting info.
So that nameless company is using something similar to this additive to eliminate the use of a different anti-wear compound.
The more info that comes up on this stuff the more I think I'd like to have a used oil analysis done with this stuff in the oil.
Maybe I'll test mule my mustang next year. I tracked the car on test and tune nights here and ran the street legals,so I don't know that I could get consistent info to compare it against because each interval may or may not see track time.
Dermapaint offered to try it out however he wasn't interested in sending a sample in for analysis.
The new mustang engine hasn't been treated with anything yet so it would be the perfect candidate,because no mos2 in it yet possibly skewing the results.
K boys. I'll run it in my mustang next spring. Blackstone must have universal averages for a ford 4.6 4v so I'll run an interval of pyb and this stuff and compare it to the universal averages that blackstone has for this engine and we can see whether it benefits anything.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2789099 10/31/12 02:19 PM
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How does the hyper lube zinc replacement additive compare to Schaeffer's #132 Moly E.P. Engine Oil Treatment.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2789426 10/31/12 07:58 PM
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Quote:
I read the Viscosity Charts but don't I need to know the temp ?


The kinematic viscosities at 40 and 100C are listed on the left side of the chart.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2790201 11/01/12 04:28 PM
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I think the Schaeffer 132 is a good bit more viscous product and contains more Antimony anti-wear compounds than Moly, from what I have read. It supposedly contains some type of polymerized esters in it's mix as well, which i am sorta guessing is the type of compound they call their "Penetro" component. I think the Schaeffers cost me about $5 or $6 or so a bottle (by the case) and I have used it to beef up the anti-wear and viscosity of lesser oils. I think it helped a bit with the oil consumption on the 2001 Isuzu Trooper I put it in this summer with some older Castrol Syntec 10W-40 we were trying to use up. I actually would rather use Schaeffer oil instead of using additives to beef up other oils, but in this case it worked well. Got that 5 qt jug of Syntec 10W-40 on clearance at WM a few years back and it was just sitting around getting dusty. Haven't used the Hyperlube stuff yet. With the Schaeffers oil, I really don't see a need for it.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2790289 11/01/12 06:00 PM
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As far as I know from speaking with their techs, this stuff has NO particulate type AW, or FM additives AT ALL in it.

It is TOTALLY the aforementioned KetJenLube (#9233 I believe?), polymer ester compound.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2790398 11/01/12 08:01 PM
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Quote:
There is one oil mfg that's using these esters with PAO and has no ZDDP whatsoever.

Quote:
So that nameless company is using something similar to this additive to eliminate the use of a different anti-wear compound.




It is no secret.


Do a search on "FUCHS."

Last edited by MolaKule; 11/01/12 08:05 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: OilNerd] #2791007 11/02/12 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Be careful if you use zddplus, as it is VERY concentrated.

I was playing around with it and SuperTech Full Syn and got Zn 1859 and 1860 ppm on two batches, when mixed 60ml to 5 quarts. crzy


wow that is strong.

I added 30 ml only of zddpmaxx to 4.5 quarts recently to a baseline of 990 ppm of zinc.
Without testing I'm assuming it wouldn't raise it more than 1500 ppm.

(FYI - no high zinc level oils here where I live and I can't import any so an additive was the only option)

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2791846 11/03/12 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
There is one oil mfg that's using these esters with PAO and has no ZDDP whatsoever.

Quote:
So that nameless company is using something similar to this additive to eliminate the use of a different anti-wear compound.




It is no secret.


Do a search on "FUCHS."


Mola; is this what is in their Titan GT1 XTL 0W-20 brew??


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2791870 11/03/12 03:14 PM
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Let's just say FUCH's and AK have had a long history of cooperation.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #2792044 11/03/12 05:36 PM
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Who / what is AK ?

Last edited by DanMiller; 11/03/12 05:37 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2792225 11/03/12 09:10 PM
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I am guessing that this stuff wouldn't be good for motorcycles with wet clutches.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2793880 11/05/12 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Who / what is AK ?


AKZO chemical company, the producers/marketers of Ket Jen Lube polymetric ester products.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2805909 11/17/12 10:57 PM
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I was looking at the hyper-lube zinc replacement MSDS, and it says that the freezing point is <-20C (-4F).

What happens if this stuff is mixed with regular 5w-30 oil when the temperatures drop below the freezing point? Does it stay in suspension, rise to the surface, sink to the bottom, or something else? Could it plug up the oil screen? I would think that once it gets to the oil pump gears, the mechanical force of the gears would raise the oil above its freezing point.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2812856 11/24/12 07:49 PM
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Being a polymer ester it is very miscible which means goes into suspension and stays there.

It does not appreciably affect the oil's viscosity at cold temps.

Here is a way to show yourself this works. Put about 2.5 oz. of Hyperlube in a quart of 5W30 oil. Bring it inside and mix it. Set it ouside and compare it to a non-additized quart of 5W30 oil, same manf.

Tell us what you see.


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #2814681 11/26/12 01:03 PM
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I wonder what is the actual VI of this stuff??


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3587153 01/03/15 06:15 PM
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1pt in with 3qts M1 0w-20EP in thee geo the last service.

ken


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3587599 01/04/15 04:14 AM
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I just re-read this thread. I'm significantly more interested in this stuff.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #3587638 01/04/15 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
I just re-read this thread. I'm significantly more interested in this stuff.


Yes, I just re-read it myself. May use this or Lubegard next time.

When I put LubeGard BioTech in my new to me Saturn SC2 with 156,000 miles, I noticed a definitive "freeing up" of the engine. It's hard to explain, but it was almost like revving up the engine in Neutral vs revving it up in gear, if you know what I mean??


03 GMC Sierra 4x4 200k M1 0-40+PU
00 Saturn SL2 89 YO Lady Car 92k, Edge Ext
98 Saturn SC2 Rare "Red Hot" 165k, Edge Ext
97 Camry 245k, Maxlife

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3587740 01/04/15 09:09 AM
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I used it in few flat tappet engines, I used the Red-line BI add too. Both seemed OK, RL was easier for me to get though.-RD

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3588462 01/04/15 08:54 PM
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^^^Yes, this product has disappeared from the shelf at Pep Boyzz, but it is still on the Vato Zone shelves.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: dailydriver] #3588588 01/04/15 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wonder what is the actual VI of this stuff??


It's about 229.


The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3588599 01/04/15 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being a polymer ester it is very miscible which means goes into suspension and stays there.

It does not appreciably affect the oil's viscosity at cold temps.

Here is a way to show yourself this works. Put about 2.5 oz. of Hyperlube in a quart of 5W30 oil. Bring it inside and mix it. Set it ouside and compare it to a non-additized quart of 5W30 oil, same manf.

Tell us what you see.



I may try this. I have some gsud in clear bottles. Now i know that in older posts you have suggested that with schaeffers 132, you only need 5 or so ounces as an antiwear. How much of this is necessary? They suggest a quart with 4-5 quarts.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Loobed] #3588605 01/04/15 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Loobed


I am guessing that this stuff wouldn't be good for motorcycles with wet clutches.



It is not a friction modifier, it is an anti-wear additive.

So don't expect any mpg increases.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/04/15 10:48 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3588613 01/04/15 10:45 PM
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They suggest a 12 oz. bottle per 4-5 quarts.

You really only need about 1 oz/quart with oils that have about 750ppm of phos and zinc.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3588724 01/05/15 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wonder what is the actual VI of this stuff??


It's about 229.

If Hyperlube ZRA is KL 135, then its VI is 139.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3589071 01/05/15 01:30 PM
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You cannot assume Hyper is using KL135 or any other KLXXX alone.


Last edited by MolaKule; 01/05/15 01:31 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3589413 01/05/15 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
I wonder what is the actual VI of this stuff??


It's about 229.


THANKS thumbsup


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3589416 01/05/15 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
You cannot assume Hyper is using KL135 or any other KLXXX alone.



Yes, and they most certainly would not tell you IF you asked (the old 'proprietary' bull routine you know). frown


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3589470 01/05/15 08:39 PM
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And one more thing.

For people who say you can't reduce NOAC volatility using a GroupI, II or III base oil, take a look at the above chart.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/05/15 08:41 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Turk] #3589478 01/05/15 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I just re-read this thread. I'm significantly more interested in this stuff.


Yes, I just re-read it myself. May use this or Lubegard next time.

When I put LubeGard BioTech in my new to me Saturn SC2 with 156,000 miles, I noticed a definitive "freeing up" of the engine. It's hard to explain, but it was almost like revving up the engine in Neutral vs revving it up in gear, if you know what I mean??



I know exactly what you mean.
And I can't find lubegard anywhere.
Are you trying to tease me or.........


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #3589863 01/06/15 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I just re-read this thread. I'm significantly more interested in this stuff.


Yes, I just re-read it myself. May use this or Lubegard next time.

When I put LubeGard BioTech in my new to me Saturn SC2 with 156,000 miles, I noticed a definitive "freeing up" of the engine. It's hard to explain, but it was almost like revving up the engine in Neutral vs revving it up in gear, if you know what I mean??



I know exactly what you mean.
And I can't find lubegard anywhere.
Are you trying to tease me or.........


Can't you order it online, from some business, like Amazon??


03 GMC Sierra 4x4 200k M1 0-40+PU
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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Clevy] #3589871 01/06/15 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Turk
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I just re-read this thread. I'm significantly more interested in this stuff.


Yes, I just re-read it myself. May use this or Lubegard next time.

When I put LubeGard BioTech in my new to me Saturn SC2 with 156,000 miles, I noticed a definitive "freeing up" of the engine. It's hard to explain, but it was almost like revving up the engine in Neutral vs revving it up in gear, if you know what I mean??



I know exactly what you mean.
And I can't find lubegard anywhere.
Are you trying to tease me or.........


Clevy-Amazon my friend, order it from them. They have quarts and a HD version as well. If Amazon doesn't ship to Canada then I stand corrected.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3589946 01/06/15 09:49 AM
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greetings:

i have not checked to see if my local auto stores carry the hyper-lube zinc replacement addy, someday i will check and maybe give it a try.

However, I remember seeing the hyper lube oil supplement(linky below) at the wally world i usually go to and thought I would ask if anyone has any thoughts on it....
http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: John_Conrad] #3590058 01/06/15 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
greetings:

i have not checked to see if my local auto stores carry the hyper-lube zinc replacement addy, someday i will check and maybe give it a try.

However, I remember seeing the hyper lube oil supplement(linky below) at the wally world i usually go to and thought I would ask if anyone has any thoughts on it....
http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html


That's not the same thing.

What you linked to is the goo, much like the old STP blue bottle oil thickener.

http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html is only good for "smokers." oilburner

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/06/15 11:55 AM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3590121 01/06/15 01:02 PM
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ok, thanks.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3590628 01/06/15 09:03 PM
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I think this is what Mola is talking about.

http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Zinc-Replacement-Additive-c7.html


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #3591171 01/07/15 10:42 AM
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Pretty much all you need to know on this subject is here:

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836


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1970 VW Peking - Paris Rally Beetle HDEO 15W40 w LM MoS2
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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3591241 01/07/15 11:55 AM
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thanks for posting that vintageant...
since i am learning from the forum, i have some questions regarding that linky above that shows zinc and zddp analysis...

are they not one and the same? or are they different? Is zinc the only value one should look at or look and take both into account?

Because if both values are taken into account then it seems to me there would be too much zinc in the oils than is necessary.

i am not formally edumucated in this field so sorry about all the questions.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3591247 01/07/15 12:01 PM
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ok, so i have reread the article and see that the zddp is calculated and the zinc and phosphorous are from analysis...

so i think that i have answered my own question, and that the zinc value alone is likely the one to use for choosing your oil, but let me know other wise,

thanks

Last edited by John_Conrad; 01/07/15 12:01 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3591274 01/07/15 12:30 PM
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John_Conrad

More info here:

http://classiccars.about.com/od/maintena...il-Additive.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

'Classic Cars' probably means pre-1980s and pre-catalytic converters

Last edited by vintageant; 01/07/15 12:31 PM.

1925 Alvis HDEO 15W40
1937 Alvis Speed 25 20W50 w LM MoS2 & LM MOS
1970 VW Peking - Paris Rally Beetle HDEO 15W40 w LM MoS2
1987 Porsche 924S HDEO 15W40
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3591347 01/07/15 01:39 PM
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thanks, i had found the first linky via search...and its a good read for rookies like me!!!

and I do have one of those older vehicles pre1980, in the form of 1978 chevy truck, i am slowly restoring. it has the 400 engine and came from the factory with heavy duty emissions ie no catalytic converter, therefore my interest in this thread.

thank you again sir.

Last edited by John_Conrad; 01/07/15 01:41 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3591562 01/07/15 04:30 PM
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The http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Zinc-Replacement-Additive-c7.html

is a no-zinc formula for extra anti-wear capabilities that replaces zinc for vehicles in which higher ZDDP levels may affect the catalytic converter.

http://www.hyperlube.com/c3/Oil-Supplement-c6.html is an oil thickener for engines that may have oil loss and bad rings, i.e., an engine that is "loosy-goosy."

All you need in an older engine is a good modern oil of the proper viscosity. For a 400, we run a 10W30 or a 10W40, depending on whether it is a "parade" car or whether it is tracked, respectively.

Has this engine been rebuilt or did you receive it with high mileage?


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3592479 01/08/15 09:59 AM
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Thanks molakule for the info.

the 400 has been rebuilt


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: John_Conrad] #3592957 01/08/15 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: John_Conrad
Thanks molakule for the info.

the 400 has been rebuilt


Then my suggestion is to run Amsoil Break-In oil

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/gasoline/break-in-oil-(sae-30)/?code=BRKQT-EA

for 500 miles and then change to a good 10W40 mineral oil like PYB or Mobil 5000, unless modern seals have been installed and if that is the case you could run a Blend or even synthetic

For the type of driving it will see, I don't see synthetic as an economic lube.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/08/15 05:04 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #3594794 01/10/15 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Being a polymer ester it is very miscible which means goes into suspension and stays there.

It does not appreciably affect the oil's viscosity at cold temps.

Here is a way to show yourself this works. Put about 2.5 oz. of Hyperlube in a quart of 5W30 oil. Bring it inside and mix it. Set it ouside and compare it to a non-additized quart of 5W30 oil, same manf.

Tell us what you see.



I may try this. I have some gsud in clear bottles. Now i know that in older posts you have suggested that with schaeffers 132, you only need 5 or so ounces as an antiwear. How much of this is necessary? They suggest a quart with 4-5 quarts.


I tried this, i cant see any obvious viscosity by shaking etc. IT appeared the air bubbles moved the same when shaken, i can't see a difference. What did i miss? Or is that the point?

Last edited by spasm3; 01/10/15 08:23 AM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3595180 01/10/15 01:52 PM
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I put both bottles in the freezer to -8 degrees f. Still i see no difference in how the oil moves , holds bubbles or how the oil film moves back down the bottle.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #3595233 01/10/15 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
I put both bottles in the freezer to -8 degrees f. Still i see no difference in how the oil moves , holds bubbles or how the oil film moves back down the bottle.


Quote:
I tried this, i cant see any obvious viscosity by shaking etc.


Did you mix the HyperLube Zinc replacement with QSUD and then put it in a freezer?

You lost me in your sequence of events and what you used.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3595244 01/10/15 03:12 PM
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Would the HyperLube Zinc-replacement stuff compete with the other AW additives in a fully formulated oil (i.e., Mobil1)? I noticed some researchers said you can't just add Ionic Lubricants (ILs) to fully formulated motor oil, as it competes for the surface with what normal motor oils already have. Can we assume Hyperlube is not going to work based on the experience with IL ?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3595361 01/10/15 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I put both bottles in the freezer to -8 degrees f. Still i see no difference in how the oil moves , holds bubbles or how the oil film moves back down the bottle.


Quote:
I tried this, i cant see any obvious viscosity by shaking etc.


Did you mix the HyperLube Zinc replacement with QSUD and then put it in a freezer?

You lost me in your sequence of events and what you used.


I took a bottle of qsud and took out 2.5 oz of oil, added 2.5 of the zinc replacement. I shook it well , no noticeable difference. I set it on my porch overnight with another unopened bottle of gsud (20f overnight. I could not see a real difference, so i then put both bottles in the freezer for several hours at say -8. I took them out, shook them looked at how the oil moved, ran down the neck of the bottle, looked at how the air bubbles moved through the cold oil when shaken. Not sure what i should have seen but i could not really tell a difference. Did i use enough of the additive? This oil is going in my saturn tomorrow btw.

Last edited by spasm3; 01/10/15 05:04 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3595477 01/10/15 06:44 PM
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Would this test be better with a conventional oil rather than a synthetic?


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: CrawfishTails] #3595611 01/10/15 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Would the HyperLube Zinc-replacement stuff compete with the other AW additives in a fully formulated oil (i.e., Mobil1)? I noticed some researchers said you can't just add Ionic Lubricants (ILs) to fully formulated motor oil, as it competes for the surface with what normal motor oils already have. Can we assume Hyperlube is not going to work based on the experience with IL ?


The HyperLube in question is not an Ionic Liquid and does not compete with other AW additives but is synergistic.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #3595617 01/10/15 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: spasm3
I put both bottles in the freezer to -8 degrees f. Still i see no difference in how the oil moves , holds bubbles or how the oil film moves back down the bottle.


Quote:
I tried this, i cant see any obvious viscosity by shaking etc.


Did you mix the HyperLube Zinc replacement with QSUD and then put it in a freezer?

You lost me in your sequence of events and what you used.


I took a bottle of qsud and took out 2.5 oz of oil, added 2.5 of the zinc replacement. I shook it well , no noticeable difference. I set it on my porch overnight with another unopened bottle of gsud (20f overnight. I could not see a real difference, so i then put both bottles in the freezer for several hours at say -8. I took them out, shook them looked at how the oil moved, ran down the neck of the bottle, looked at how the air bubbles moved through the cold oil when shaken. Not sure what i should have seen but i could not really tell a difference. Did i use enough of the additive? This oil is going in my saturn tomorrow btw.


Okay, gotcha.

You should see little difference between the unadditized oil and the additized oil in terms of low temp viscosity, which appears to prove what I said earlier.

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Would this test be better with a conventional oil rather than a synthetic?


It should not matter.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/10/15 08:40 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3597423 01/12/15 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Would the HyperLube Zinc-replacement stuff compete with the other AW additives in a fully formulated oil (i.e., Mobil1)? I noticed some researchers said you can't just add Ionic Lubricants (ILs) to fully formulated motor oil, as it competes for the surface with what normal motor oils already have. Can we assume Hyperlube is not going to work based on the experience with IL ?


The HyperLube in question is not an Ionic Liquid and does not compete with other AW additives but is synergistic.


OK, sounds like HyperLube no-zinc formula (ester) is the real deal. No way to tell once I put it in the oil, as my butt-dyno is only sensitive to anything above 2.8 on the Richter scale. I'll use MolaKules recomendation of 1 oz per quart motor oil, since any decent oil already has the SN limit of zddp there.

Last edited by CrawfishTails; 01/12/15 01:23 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3601107 01/15/15 02:43 PM
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I doubt there will be any "butt-dyno" effects on the Richter scale smile as it is not a friction modifier but an additional anti-wear additive.

For the daily driver using a good OTC oil, I see no reason to use it.

If you are concerned about wear during tracking, it may help reduce wear.

But if I were tracking, I think I would use a high ZDDP oil similar to Amsoil's Z-Rod or Dominator racing oils.

The only reason I discuss this at all is because I have used a similar chemistry in a low-vis formulation with 300 ppm of ZDDP and a polymer chemistry, and wear results were good.

Last edited by MolaKule; 01/15/15 02:46 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3601124 01/15/15 03:01 PM
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If we believe Hyperlube's own cam wear tables, this stuff can boost wear performance. MolaKule's good experience and some articles I read seem to corroborate the good effects. I'm looking for anything to reduce wear over what dexos1, MB 229.5, etc. already requires.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #3608299 01/22/15 10:04 AM
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Are there any similar products that are at a better price point?


Currently using, 8100 X-clean EFE 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: Koz1] #3608746 01/22/15 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Koz1
Are there any similar products that are at a better price point?


Not at this time.

The polymer ester is expensive.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #3608898 01/22/15 06:10 PM
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Thank you.
Cheers.


Currently using, 8100 X-clean EFE 5W-30, M1 5W-20 and Castrol Edge 0W-20 Gold B.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4743999 04/30/18 10:33 PM
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Did we ever get to the bottom of if this stuff and Schaefer 132 have similar chemistry and concept of use/protection?

I found a good number of 132 bottles in my garage. Might start dosing it into my 20wt oils...

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4744532 05/01/18 02:18 PM
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HyperLube Zinc Replacement is a pure polymer ester, nothing else.

Schaeffer's #132 is mostly an oil thickener (VII) with some ester mixed in and these components:


Moly 25
Phosphorus 120
Zinc 10
Antimony 64

Vi @ 100c 220

It is used primarily in diesel and gasoline engines with worn rings and worn valve stem seals, AKA, "smokers."


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4744695 05/01/18 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HyperLube Zinc Replacement is a pure polymer ester, nothing else.

Schaeffer's #132 is mostly an oil thickener (VII) with some ester mixed in and these components:


Moly 25
Phosphorus 120
Zinc 10
Antimony 64

Vi @ 100c 220

It is used primarily in diesel and gasoline engines with worn rings and worn valve stem seals, AKA, "smokers."


Will a full bottle added to M1 or PP 5w30 push it to a 40 grade? Thanks.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: demarpaint] #4744767 05/01/18 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HyperLube Zinc Replacement is a pure polymer ester, nothing else.
Schaeffer's #132 is mostly an oil thickener (VII) with some ester mixed in and these components:

Will a full bottle added to M1 or PP 5w30 push it to a 40 grade? Thanks.

Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP certainly will take a 5w30 to a 5w40 or 10w40, easily with 16 oz in 1 bottle (assume 5 qt sump).
HyperLube ZRA has a KV100 of about 37, if I converted the MSDS's dynamic visc at 100 correctly to kinematic visc; Therefore, you get a +1 cSt boost from HyperLube ZRA at 12 oz in a 5qt sump, so it does not quite make it to a 40 weight.

Last edited by oil_film_movies; 05/01/18 06:14 PM.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4744826 05/01/18 07:17 PM
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interesting for sure, i like many are trying to "reinvent the wheel" with todays declining additives something to add a bit more protection is interesting. i have blended Redlines high moly oils with Mobil I EP both 10-30 + wondering if this helps or hurts anything more than my wallet!!!

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4745171 05/02/18 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
HyperLube Zinc Replacement is a pure polymer ester, nothing else.
Schaeffer's #132 is mostly an oil thickener (VII) with some ester mixed in and these components:

Will a full bottle added to M1 or PP 5w30 push it to a 40 grade? Thanks.

Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP certainly will take a 5w30 to a 5w40 or 10w40, easily with 16 oz in 1 bottle (assume 5 qt sump).
HyperLube ZRA has a KV100 of about 37, if I converted the MSDS's dynamic visc at 100 correctly to kinematic visc; Therefore, you get a +1 cSt boost from HyperLube ZRA at 12 oz in a 5qt sump, so it does not quite make it to a 40 weight.


Thanks, I figured the #132 would give it a bump, too much for my liking. I guess it really is for oil burners only, unless cut with something.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: demarpaint] #4745225 05/02/18 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Thanks, I figured the #132 would give it a bump, too much for my liking. I guess it really is for oil burners only, unless cut with something.


I have used schaffer's 132 50/50 with motor oil as an assembly lube. Seems to stay put on cylinders when installing pistons/rings and for start up.


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4745229 05/02/18 06:34 AM
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Mola, would there be any advantage in using the hyperlube zinc replacement ester with engines that are known for fuel dilution?


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #4745241 05/02/18 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Thanks, I figured the #132 would give it a bump, too much for my liking. I guess it really is for oil burners only, unless cut with something.


I have used schaffer's 132 50/50 with motor oil as an assembly lube. Seems to stay put on cylinders when installing pistons/rings and for start up.


thumbsup


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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #4745374 05/02/18 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Mola, would there be any advantage in using the hyperlube zinc replacement ester with engines that are known for fuel dilution?

I like that question. Hope Molakule thinks about that one in case there are any effects not apparent from just considering viscosity change alone. ... I've always thought that anything super-thick (Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP is 225 cSt KV100 --- very thick!!!) added to a fueled-up oil would work. STP Oil Treatment is 200 cSt KV100 for example.
The Hyperlube ZRA is moderately thick, and it should help on just a Stribeck viscosity basis alone (+1 cSt added), yet it does have that polar nature that clings & slimes the surface pretty well.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4745406 05/02/18 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

HyperLube ZRA has a KV100 of about 37, if I converted the MSDS's dynamic visc at 100 correctly to kinematic visc; Therefore, you get a +1 cSt boost from HyperLube ZRA at 12 oz in a 5qt sump, so it does not quite make it to a 40 weight.


Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.

A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:41 AM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #4745410 05/02/18 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Mola, would there be any advantage in using the hyperlube zinc replacement ester with engines that are known for fuel dilution?


Again, a product such as HyperLube Zinc Replacement Additive does nothing to thicken the oil in terms of combating "thinning" by fuel dilution or other factors.

It may help to keep the AW components from being removed at the surfaces because of it's polar nature.

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:43 AM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4745567 05/02/18 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.
A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).


Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4745946 05/02/18 07:47 PM
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Polymer esters have the unusual property of having a low thickening effect when mixed with less viscous PAO or mineral oil. They dont obey the usual viscosity relationship that applies to mixes.
See page 145 for more on that: https://books.google.com/books?id=vkYCvw...ity&f=false

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: JAG] #4745971 05/02/18 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: JAG
Polymer esters have the unusual property of having a low thickening effect when mixed with less viscous PAO or mineral oil. They dont obey the usual viscosity relationship that applies to mixes.
See page 145 for more on that: https://books.google.com/books?id=vkYCvw...ity&f=false


Interesting. Good book there too. Not a new book, 1999, but some cool stuff in there.
In fact, HyperLube ZRA happens to be around 37 cSt, and the chart on page 149, Figure 12 happens to about match it at 34:

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746033 05/02/18 08:52 PM
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Yes, the book is great. The synergy between certain lubricant additives and/or oils is amazing.
Leslie has a 2013 version of the book: https://books.google.com/books?id=9YXRBQ...ter&f=false

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746114 05/02/18 09:51 PM
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I only ever added a slight amount of 132, I used the molabrew with LC20.

But I havent bought LC in a long while now.

Those two likely offset each other. Dont want to make my oil too viscous... Perhaps Ill run it in the lawnmower, though it will take a long time to run through it...


FWIW, it doesnt seem like anyplace carries the hyperlube zinc replacement anywhere around me at least. The closest place is an O'Reilley in CT...


Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4746174 05/02/18 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.
A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).


Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?


1) I cited, "STP Blue Bottle," Motor Honey, and Hyperlube Engine Oil Treatment additive, etc,, as examples which contained OCP VII's. Viscosity Index Improvers (VII's) have molecules that affect the viscosity of the oil verses temperature.

AS I explained above, twice, Hyperlube Zinc Replacement Additive IS NOT, I repeat, IS NOT a viscosity modifier. It is a polymer ester.

2) I could care less what the MSDS' says because SDS' do not disclose all of the components in a formulation. An SDS is NOT a formula sheet.

3) Any evidence for your claims? Yes, expensive University Lab analysis. And what is your evidence to the contrary?

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:59 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746193 05/02/18 10:52 PM
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This additive has also been discussed on 3/16/18 in which I explained what it is:


Quote:
A copolymer is a series of seperate isomers linked together.

In the case of HyperLube Zinc replacement, it is a copolymer of alpha-olefin isomers and dibutylester isomers linked together.

The alpha-olefin isomers and dibutylester isomers are linked together via a reaction.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...ive#Post4707916

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 11:09 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4746429 05/03/18 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
AS I explained above, twice, Hyperlube Zinc Replacement Additive IS NOT, I repeat, IS NOT a viscosity modifier. It is a polymer ester.

Getting a little weird and cranky there. NOBODY said HyperLube ZRA was a VM or VII. The question had to do with viscosity mixing, like when mixing 6 cSt PAO with 10 cSt PAO, for example, just plain old mixing. Not sure why I have to spell it out for you.

AND, you missed it, but JAG already covered the topic, and cited a valid reference, try that maybe next time yourself. AGAIN, just read the stuff above.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746528 05/03/18 09:57 AM
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I didn't miss JAG's comments, I have read all the posts, and was simply adding to JAG's post.

This statement below indicated you had some misunderstandings regarding the distinction between VII chemistry and polymer esters:

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I've always thought that anything super-thick (Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP is 225 cSt KV100 --- very thick!!!) added to a fueled-up oil would work. STP Oil Treatment is 200 cSt KV100 for example.
The Hyperlube ZRA is moderately thick, and it should help on just a Stribeck viscosity basis alone (+1 cSt added), yet it does have that polar nature that clings & slimes the surface pretty well.


AND

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?


Just because a chemical or compound is, "Thick" in its native state doesn't mean it is going to thicken the host oil to any significant degree IF it is not a VII.

Lastly, you seem to put your faith in a SDS as if it contained more technical information than does a textbook by someone educated in chemistry, such as by Dr.Leslie.

Recommendation: Chill and read. smile


Last edited by MolaKule; 05/03/18 10:00 AM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4746695 05/03/18 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I didn't miss JAG's comments, I have read all the posts, and was simply adding to JAG's post.
No, you didn't address anything JAG concluded. He was talking about exactly what I was: The ability to mix oils and raise viscosity.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
This statement below indicated you had some misunderstandings regarding the distinction between VII chemistry and polymer esters:
Again, no. Clearly, to anybody that can actually read and comprehend plain English, I was discussing oil mixing. The concept of VM VII's is a separate topic that I never brought up. That's obvious to all, as demonstrated by JAG who answered the question succinctly and with real facts.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Chill and read.
Get snarky much??? You need to get some logic training. Have a nice day, and try actually answering questions cogently from now on.
You won't just appear rude & waste everyone's time with strange statements.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746716 05/03/18 01:51 PM
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Education and cognition can sometimes be difficult for difficult people. smile

Have a marvelous day.

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/03/18 01:53 PM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4746720 05/03/18 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Just because a chemical or compound is, "Thick" in its native state doesn't mean it is going to thicken the host oil to any significant degree IF it is not a VII.
The question had to do with viscosity mixing, like when mixing 6 cSt PAO with 10 cSt PAO, for example, just plain old mixing. Not sure why I have to spell it out for you. It doesn't have to be a VII, that's nonsense. Everybody knows (except you I guess) that you raise the KV100 of an oil if you add thicker KV100 oil, no VII's required. That is a given, and its hard to believe why you have so much trouble understanding that. Non-Newtonian effects are present in some fluids, but there is some thickening of the sump oil using Polymer Esters, just not as much as you would get with Newtonian oil.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Lastly, you seem to put your faith in a SDS as if it contained more technical information than does a textbook by someone educated in chemistry, such as by Dr.Leslie.
An SDS is sometimes revealing and sometimes not. This is commonly known. A person looks in there for some info, and sometimes its there. This has NOTHING to do with Dr. Leslie, whatever your point there was. Just strange comments from you. Keep the odd logic coming.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4746721 05/03/18 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Education and cognition can sometimes be difficult for difficult people. smile Have a marvelous day.

Are you a professor? I feel sorry for your students. Holy cow. YOU have a wonderful day!!! grin grin grin grin grin grin

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: JHZR2] #4752013 05/09/18 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
FWIW, it doesnt seem like anyplace carries the hyperlube zinc replacement anywhere around me at least. The closest place is an O'Reilley in CT...



Ebay sellers online are the ONLY place I've found this recently, as it's been dropped from; amazon, Wal Mart online, Pep Boyzz, Auto Zone and Advance, Car Quest and NAPAs (not even in their 'systems' any more).
I am guessing due to the cost for a 12oz. bottle, most wanting a "real" ZDDP additive, whether they need it, or it could HURT their modern engine/catcons, or not, and that it actually DOES 'work'. LOL

One ebay seller had 3 bottles for ~$45.00 with free USPS shipping included.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4752331 05/09/18 07:26 PM
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I got mine on sale, online, from Oreilly with free shipping for $15. I might stock up since Im worried that it will become unavailable.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: JAG] #4753545 05/10/18 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: JAG
I got mine on sale, online, from Oreilly with free shipping for $15. I might stock up since Im worried that it will become unavailable.


Given how few carry it currently, that is a real probability, sadly. frown

O'Reillys wanted FULL retail price ($19.99), PLUS shipping from their closest store to me some 200 miles away, and having to fully sign up on their site, so I passed.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4758268 05/15/18 09:24 PM
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addyguy Offline
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oil_film_movies,

MK will forget more about oil chemistry than you will ever know. I'd drop the attitude, you are not in his league.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 145k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: addyguy] #4947531 12/09/18 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by addyguy
oil_film_movies,

MK will forget more about oil chemistry than you will ever know. I'd drop the attitude, you are not in his league.


^^^^^This

He seems to know everything about tires as well.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4947917 12/10/18 06:05 AM
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demarpaint Offline
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This is an old thread, but anyone interested Walmart has it online for $12.94 a bottle which is not a bad price. They ship it free if you spend $35, or send it to the store where you can pick it up, and not have to spend $35 to get free shipping. HTH


God Bless Our Troops

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4950904 12/13/18 12:26 PM
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I just ordered 4 bottles off Amazon Prime. $12.99 each, free shipping.

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