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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #4745374 05/02/18 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Mola, would there be any advantage in using the hyperlube zinc replacement ester with engines that are known for fuel dilution?

I like that question. Hope Molakule thinks about that one in case there are any effects not apparent from just considering viscosity change alone. ... I've always thought that anything super-thick (Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP is 225 cSt KV100 --- very thick!!!) added to a fueled-up oil would work. STP Oil Treatment is 200 cSt KV100 for example.
The Hyperlube ZRA is moderately thick, and it should help on just a Stribeck viscosity basis alone (+1 cSt added), yet it does have that polar nature that clings & slimes the surface pretty well.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4745406 05/02/18 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies

HyperLube ZRA has a KV100 of about 37, if I converted the MSDS's dynamic visc at 100 correctly to kinematic visc; Therefore, you get a +1 cSt boost from HyperLube ZRA at 12 oz in a 5qt sump, so it does not quite make it to a 40 weight.


Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.

A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:41 AM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: spasm3] #4745410 05/02/18 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Mola, would there be any advantage in using the hyperlube zinc replacement ester with engines that are known for fuel dilution?


Again, a product such as HyperLube Zinc Replacement Additive does nothing to thicken the oil in terms of combating "thinning" by fuel dilution or other factors.

It may help to keep the AW components from being removed at the surfaces because of it's polar nature.

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:43 AM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4745567 05/02/18 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.
A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).


Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4745946 05/02/18 07:47 PM
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Polymer esters have the unusual property of having a low thickening effect when mixed with less viscous PAO or mineral oil. They dont obey the usual viscosity relationship that applies to mixes.
See page 145 for more on that: https://books.google.com/books?id=vkYCvw...ity&f=false

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: JAG] #4745971 05/02/18 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: JAG
Polymer esters have the unusual property of having a low thickening effect when mixed with less viscous PAO or mineral oil. They dont obey the usual viscosity relationship that applies to mixes.
See page 145 for more on that: https://books.google.com/books?id=vkYCvw...ity&f=false


Interesting. Good book there too. Not a new book, 1999, but some cool stuff in there.
In fact, HyperLube ZRA happens to be around 37 cSt, and the chart on page 149, Figure 12 happens to about match it at 34:

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746033 05/02/18 08:52 PM
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Yes, the book is great. The synergy between certain lubricant additives and/or oils is amazing.
Leslie has a 2013 version of the book: https://books.google.com/books?id=9YXRBQ...ter&f=false

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746114 05/02/18 09:51 PM
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I only ever added a slight amount of 132, I used the molabrew with LC20.

But I havent bought LC in a long while now.

Those two likely offset each other. Dont want to make my oil too viscous... Perhaps Ill run it in the lawnmower, though it will take a long time to run through it...


FWIW, it doesnt seem like anyplace carries the hyperlube zinc replacement anywhere around me at least. The closest place is an O'Reilley in CT...


Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4746174 05/02/18 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Let's make a distinction here: Most of the thick oil additives such as STP Blue Bottle, HyperLube Engine Oil Additive, Motor Honey, and other similar products for oil burners are composed primarily of cheap-grade OCP Viscosity Index Improvers and only serve to thicken the oil.
A Polymerized Ester such as HyperLube ZRA IS NOT a Viscosity Index Improver and therefor DOES NOT increase viscosity (thicken the oil).


Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?


1) I cited, "STP Blue Bottle," Motor Honey, and Hyperlube Engine Oil Treatment additive, etc,, as examples which contained OCP VII's. Viscosity Index Improvers (VII's) have molecules that affect the viscosity of the oil verses temperature.

AS I explained above, twice, Hyperlube Zinc Replacement Additive IS NOT, I repeat, IS NOT a viscosity modifier. It is a polymer ester.

2) I could care less what the MSDS' says because SDS' do not disclose all of the components in a formulation. An SDS is NOT a formula sheet.

3) Any evidence for your claims? Yes, expensive University Lab analysis. And what is your evidence to the contrary?

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 10:59 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746193 05/02/18 10:52 PM
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This additive has also been discussed on 3/16/18 in which I explained what it is:


Quote:
A copolymer is a series of seperate isomers linked together.

In the case of HyperLube Zinc replacement, it is a copolymer of alpha-olefin isomers and dibutylester isomers linked together.

The alpha-olefin isomers and dibutylester isomers are linked together via a reaction.


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...ive#Post4707916

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/02/18 11:09 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4746429 05/03/18 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
AS I explained above, twice, Hyperlube Zinc Replacement Additive IS NOT, I repeat, IS NOT a viscosity modifier. It is a polymer ester.

Getting a little weird and cranky there. NOBODY said HyperLube ZRA was a VM or VII. The question had to do with viscosity mixing, like when mixing 6 cSt PAO with 10 cSt PAO, for example, just plain old mixing. Not sure why I have to spell it out for you.

AND, you missed it, but JAG already covered the topic, and cited a valid reference, try that maybe next time yourself. AGAIN, just read the stuff above.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746528 05/03/18 09:57 AM
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I didn't miss JAG's comments, I have read all the posts, and was simply adding to JAG's post.

This statement below indicated you had some misunderstandings regarding the distinction between VII chemistry and polymer esters:

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
I've always thought that anything super-thick (Schaeffer's #132 Moly EP is 225 cSt KV100 --- very thick!!!) added to a fueled-up oil would work. STP Oil Treatment is 200 cSt KV100 for example.
The Hyperlube ZRA is moderately thick, and it should help on just a Stribeck viscosity basis alone (+1 cSt added), yet it does have that polar nature that clings & slimes the surface pretty well.


AND

Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Since HyperLube ZRA polymer esters have a KV100 of about 37 cSt, then wouldn't that thicken the oil when mixed in? Not by much at 12 oz to be sure, but it will thicken it as far as I know. Widman predicts about 1 cSt thicker.

Where did you get your info that STP & other oil-burner products have any VII in them? STP makes no claim of that. The MSDS doesn't say it has anything other than detergents and ZDDP. It appears its mostly thick base oil. Any evidence for your claims?


Just because a chemical or compound is, "Thick" in its native state doesn't mean it is going to thicken the host oil to any significant degree IF it is not a VII.

Lastly, you seem to put your faith in a SDS as if it contained more technical information than does a textbook by someone educated in chemistry, such as by Dr.Leslie.

Recommendation: Chill and read. smile


Last edited by MolaKule; 05/03/18 10:00 AM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: MolaKule] #4746695 05/03/18 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I didn't miss JAG's comments, I have read all the posts, and was simply adding to JAG's post.
No, you didn't address anything JAG concluded. He was talking about exactly what I was: The ability to mix oils and raise viscosity.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
This statement below indicated you had some misunderstandings regarding the distinction between VII chemistry and polymer esters:
Again, no. Clearly, to anybody that can actually read and comprehend plain English, I was discussing oil mixing. The concept of VM VII's is a separate topic that I never brought up. That's obvious to all, as demonstrated by JAG who answered the question succinctly and with real facts.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Chill and read.
Get snarky much??? You need to get some logic training. Have a nice day, and try actually answering questions cogently from now on.
You won't just appear rude & waste everyone's time with strange statements.

Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: DanMiller] #4746716 05/03/18 01:51 PM
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Education and cognition can sometimes be difficult for difficult people. smile

Have a marvelous day.

Last edited by MolaKule; 05/03/18 01:53 PM.

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Re: hy-per lube zinc replacement additive [Re: oil_film_movies] #4746720 05/03/18 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Just because a chemical or compound is, "Thick" in its native state doesn't mean it is going to thicken the host oil to any significant degree IF it is not a VII.
The question had to do with viscosity mixing, like when mixing 6 cSt PAO with 10 cSt PAO, for example, just plain old mixing. Not sure why I have to spell it out for you. It doesn't have to be a VII, that's nonsense. Everybody knows (except you I guess) that you raise the KV100 of an oil if you add thicker KV100 oil, no VII's required. That is a given, and its hard to believe why you have so much trouble understanding that. Non-Newtonian effects are present in some fluids, but there is some thickening of the sump oil using Polymer Esters, just not as much as you would get with Newtonian oil.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Lastly, you seem to put your faith in a SDS as if it contained more technical information than does a textbook by someone educated in chemistry, such as by Dr.Leslie.
An SDS is sometimes revealing and sometimes not. This is commonly known. A person looks in there for some info, and sometimes its there. This has NOTHING to do with Dr. Leslie, whatever your point there was. Just strange comments from you. Keep the odd logic coming.

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