New Amsoil 5W-40

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Anyone know what the deal is with the new Amsoil 5W-40? It is cheaper and I see some tech differences but not enough to give me an idea why one is ~$3 cheaper per quart than the other. I have always used AFL. The new EFM is also considered a Full SAPS oil whereas the AFL is considered Mid SAPS. To be honest, I don't know what that means though. Both meet 502.00 and 505.00 with the AFL meeting 505.01 too. Can someone shed some light on this for me? Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks in advance,

Rich
 
Generally, low SAPs oils are designed for new diesel engines with DPF and other fancy emissions equipment. These oils can also be used in gasoline engines, but due to weaker add pack, they may have trouble surviving very long OCI due to our gasoline quality. But if you're not doing crazy long OCIs, even low SAPs should be fine.
 
Thanks for the link. In my 2001 S4 I do 6 month OCI which is usually less than 2k miles. I'm pretty anal about this car. Have had it for over 12 years and only have 90K miles on it. So, even though AFL is more expensive and mid SAPS it should still be the better option for my car (amsoil lists the AFL as the performance option for my A4 and S4).
 
Originally Posted By: Wheel366
Thanks for the link. In my 2001 S4 I do 6 month OCI which is usually less than 2k miles. I'm pretty anal about this car. Have had it for over 12 years and only have 90K miles on it. So, even though AFL is more expensive and mid SAPS it should still be the better option for my car (amsoil lists the AFL as the performance option for my A4 and S4).


For that interval (and even longer) by all means switch over to EFM and save the money. The cost difference is the base oil and lower sulphated ash/phosphorus additives in the AFL - things you really don't need.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Wheel366
Thanks for the link. In my 2001 S4 I do 6 month OCI which is usually less than 2k miles. I'm pretty anal about this car. Have had it for over 12 years and only have 90K miles on it. So, even though AFL is more expensive and mid SAPS it should still be the better option for my car (amsoil lists the AFL as the performance option for my A4 and S4).


For that interval (and even longer) by all means switch over to EFM and save the money. The cost difference is the base oil and lower sulphated ash/phosphorus additives in the AFL - things you really don't need.


Thanks Pablo. I'll keep that in mind for the future. I just bought 2 cases of AFL a couple of months ago so I am actually good on oil for now but it is nice to know that there is a cheaper option for me that I am sure if a great option. Can't wait to see some reviews!
 
Hi. Check out this writeup on the new 5W-40 European Formula.AMSOIL European Car Formula 5W-40 Full-SAPS Synthetic Motor Oil is specially formulated for the lubrication needs of European gasoline and diesel cars and light trucks. Its full sulfated ash, phosphorus and sulfur (SAPS) formulation provides excellent protection and performance for a wide range of vehicles.
AMSOIL European Car Formula contains high-quality anti-wear additives and surpasses the tough ACEA oil specifications for high-temperature/high-shear (HT/HS) viscosity. It provides outstanding protection in high-rpm, hot-running engines and delivers dependable long-term performance for the extended drain intervals recommended by European vehicle manufacturers.
It is recommended for European gasoline and diesel vehicles requiring any of the following performance specifications:

API SN/SM
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
BMW LL-01
Mercedes-Benz 229.3, 229.5
Porsche A40
Renault 0710, 0700
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00
You may have seen all of this already, but it appears to not have the more strenuous additive packages that the other two formulas have, thus making it less costly to manufacture.
Hope this is of some help. Let me know.
 
Originally Posted By: alzsynthetics10

You may have seen all of this already, but it appears to not have the more strenuous additive packages that the other two formulas have, thus making it less costly to manufacture.
Hope this is of some help. Let me know.

Amsoil dealer? I would hope it has a more strenuous additive package since it's a full SAPS oil.
grin2.gif


-Dennis
 
Originally Posted By: Wheel366
Anyone know what the deal is with the new Amsoil 5W-40? It is cheaper and I see some tech differences but not enough to give me an idea why one is ~$3 cheaper per quart than the other. I have always used AFL. The new EFM is also considered a Full SAPS oil whereas the AFL is considered Mid SAPS. To be honest, I don't know what that means though. Both meet 502.00 and 505.00 with the AFL meeting 505.01 too. Can someone shed some light on this for me? Just trying to educate myself.

Thanks in advance,

Rich


Like has been said before, low and mid saps oils are designed to protect diesel particulate filters.

Differences are in the builder approvals

European Car Formula 5W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil (AFL)


API SN/SM...
ACEA C3 (mid saps)
BMW LL-04
GM dexos2™ (gm fixed and longlife petrol and diesel spec)
Mercedes-Benz 229.51/229.31 (fixed interval and longlife service diesels with dpf)
Porsche A40
Volkswagen 502.00/505.01 (505.01 PD engines on fixed intervals)

European Car Formula Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil (EFM)


API SN/SM
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
BMW LL-01
Mercedes-Benz 229.3, 229.5 (petrol engines fixed and longlife service respectively)
Porsche A40
Renault 0710, 0700
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00

The AFL is a newer generation oil with a more modern additive pack geared up towards the latest generation european petrol and diesel Engines with exhaust after treatment devices. The AFL looks like a well engineered oil to me but as always the most important thing is to get the application right.

Riggaz
 
Yeah I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec. 229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec), and I researched this a long time with MBUSA HQ. The two specs are only for their respective applications.

For a gas car, EFM would be the choice from Amsoil, and that isn't an official approval keep in mind (MB doesn't approve it), just the recommendation by Amsoil.
 
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
Yeah I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec. 229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec), and I researched this a long time with MBUSA HQ. The two specs are only for their respective applications.


I believe you wrote the same thing in another thread. It's not true, and doesn't make sense. Don't take my word for it. Look at MB and Mobil 1. I mean if I'm wrong I'll gladly eat my words.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
Yeah I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec. 229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec), and I researched this a long time with MBUSA HQ. The two specs are only for their respective applications.


I believe you wrote the same thing in another thread. It's not true, and doesn't make sense. Don't take my word for it. Look at MB and Mobil 1. I mean if I'm wrong I'll gladly eat my words.

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/d/d/en/Spec_223_2.pdf

http://www.mobil1.co.uk/why-mobil-1/mercedes-engine-oil.aspx


Well I have to say he is mostly right so maybe some word eating is on the cards

MB 229.51/229.31 can only be used in a few gas engines and not all gas engines just like 229.5 can be used in a few diesel engines and not all.

MB 229.51 is only approved for 3 of the 7 groups of gasoline engines that the 229.5 is approved for according to the MB oil approval chart 223.2. If the 229.51 and 229.31 superceded the 229.3 and 229.5 then these approvals would be obsolete which they are not.

So while there are some exceptions/crossovers, the 229.3 and 229.5 are the gasoline specs and provide the best performance in these engines. The 229.31 and 229.51 provide the best performance in their diesel engines.

Riggaz
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: riggaz


Well I have to say he is right to some degree so maybe some word eating is on the cards

MB 229.51 is only approved for 3 of the 7 groups of gasoline engines that the 229.5 is approved for according to the MB oil approval chart 223.2.

Riggaz


He wrote "229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec),". It is not just a diesel oil. Period. It's a multiuse low SAPS oil. In some cases it can be used in 229.5 applications (gasoline), so yes it's backwards compatible - true not 100%. It's just that you can't use 229.5 in diesels with DPF.

"I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec"

What does this mean? Look at the chart. Some gas engines are OK with 229.51 per MB. Amsoil has it absolutely correct. Please tell me which words to eat(?)
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: riggaz


Well I have to say he is right to some degree so maybe some word eating is on the cards

MB 229.51 is only approved for 3 of the 7 groups of gasoline engines that the 229.5 is approved for according to the MB oil approval chart 223.2.

Riggaz


He wrote "229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec),". It is not just a diesel oil. Period. It's a multiuse low SAPS oil. In some cases it can be used in 229.5 applications (gasoline), so yes it's backwards compatible - true not 100%. It's just that you can't use 229.5 in diesels with DPF.

"I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec"

What does this mean? Look at the chart. Some gas engines are OK with 229.51 per MB. Amsoil has it absolutely correct. Please tell me which words to eat(?)


Amsoil has it right

He has it right

You have it wrong

229.51 is not backward compatible with 229.5 and 229.3, so he is right

for 229.51 to be backward compatible with 229.5 and 229.3 then it would have to be approved for all petrol engines...which it is not

Riggaz
 
Originally Posted By: riggaz
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: riggaz


Well I have to say he is right to some degree so maybe some word eating is on the cards

MB 229.51 is only approved for 3 of the 7 groups of gasoline engines that the 229.5 is approved for according to the MB oil approval chart 223.2.

Riggaz


He wrote "229.51 is the diesel spec. It isn't backwards compatible to 229.5 (gas spec),". It is not just a diesel oil. Period. It's a multiuse low SAPS oil. In some cases it can be used in 229.5 applications (gasoline), so yes it's backwards compatible - true not 100%. It's just that you can't use 229.5 in diesels with DPF.

"I wouldn't use the AFL in a Gasoline mercedes because Amsoil says 229.51 spec"

What does this mean? Look at the chart. Some gas engines are OK with 229.51 per MB. Amsoil has it absolutely correct. Please tell me which words to eat(?)


Amsoil has it right

He has it right

You have it wrong

229.51 is not backward compatible with 229.5 and 229.3, so he is right

for 229.51 to be backward compatible with 229.5 and 229.3 then it would have to be approved for all petrol engines...which it is not

Riggaz



No. And yes. 229.51 is NOT just a Diesel oil. That was my main point. But I see your point. It is not fully backward compatible and I agree - and I thought I stated it pretty clearly above, I probably didn't choose my words correctly. MB says it can be back spec'd for certain engines - and that was my point, or why else would have have posted the links? Anyway, kinda glad we hashed this out.

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