concrete driveway coating/sealing question

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friendly_jacek

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I got my driveway cleaned with pressure washer and looks great. I would like that to last a bit longer than the last time. The concrete was never sealed and is several years old (under 10). Since the driveway is rather long, I'm looking for cheap solutions.

I googled as learned that MO DOT uses linseed oil on it's bridges and some studies also showed that used engine oil is beneficial for concrete.

links here:
http://library.modot.mo.gov/RDT/reports/Ri04051/or07009.pdf
http://penerbit.uthm.edu.my/ojs/index.php/IJSCET/article/viewFile/60/68

I'm tempted to try either or both but concerned about darkening of concrete. Anyone has any experience with concrete sealing?
 
All sealers will darken the concrete slightly as far as I know. I know it's popular around me because of the road salt.

I never understood the concept of sealing concrete flat-work, aside from trying to protect it from wintertime road salt?
 
I think the idea is to displace pores with hydrophobic material to prevent damage from water freezing cycles that lead to chipping and cracking.

I wanted to do it more for stain resistance as concrete turns dark here quickly from mold and other contaminates.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I think the idea is to displace pores with hydrophobic material to prevent damage from water freezing cycles that lead to chipping and cracking.

I wanted to do it more for stain resistance as concrete turns dark here quickly from mold and other contaminates.


You are kinda right on the first part. The Malaysian paper about the motor oil notes a decrease in 'oxygen permeability' which should prevent water and oxygen from reaching the reinforcing steel. Metal expands when it rusts.

From your original post, it sounded like you wanted to keep your concrete looking nice for longer. If that is the case, I am puzzled why you want to dump used motor oil over it??
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe

From your original post, it sounded like you wanted to keep your concrete looking nice for longer. If that is the case, I am puzzled why you want to dump used motor oil over it??


I impregnated unpainted landscape or fence wood with used engine oil before with great results.

My accidents with oil spills on driveway resulted in initially dark stain, but it disappeared later when oil was totally absorbed.

The idea is to seal concrete, so dirt would not be absorbed.

I guess I will try small area first to test more.
 
I did some more research and looks like soybean oil is the way to go. Soybean makes the top surface of concrete stronger and resistant to wear and ice scaling.

This paper explains it very well: http://www.roadsbridges.com/sites/default/files/22_soybean concrete_0111RB.pdf

I wish I knew it when the concrete was new as now it is weathered some with aggregate (stones) exposed already.

BTW, Soybean oil can be purchased very cheaply in bulk amounts.

I'm doing spot testing now with vegatable oils and used engine and ATF oils.
 
The impression I get doing a quick read of the research http://www.sccanada.net/resources/c2_tech_paper.pdf is that they had some good results using "soybean oil emulsion marketed for concrete curing" to aid initial concrete curing and to deter deicer scaling. THEY SUGGEST THAT FURTHER TESTING IS RECOMMENDED.

I doubt that the soybean oil emulsion they are using is the same as soybean cooking oil. Soy and linseed oils are used in wood varnishes too, but probably not soy cooking oil.

The article seems to be directed towards curing relatively new concrete, not treating old concrete to resist stains, etc..

I would think that plain soybean oil might turn rancid and grow mold. If no driers are in it (like in wood finishes), it seems the soy oil would get gummy and hold dirt.

I suggest that you join the garage journal forum and get to know the concrete industry floor treatment members there for their opinion. Study the Flooring forum for concrete treatment to learn about products that soak into the concrete to fill and harden the pores, resulting in less staining and wear.

Again, I don't think you are reading the research material for what it is. No where did I read that soy bean oil is good on old concrete for the purpose you desire. You at least need to find out what their "soybean oil emulsion" really is.
 
Look at the ingredients in this one:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4239540

Paraffin wax: 18.2%
Cocoanut oil: 4.2%
Soybean oil: 3.3%
Linseed oil: 4.2%
Stearic acid: 3.4%
Hexacosanic acid: 1.6%
Water: 62.5%
Ethyl Cyanuric ester: 2.6%
based upon 100% by weight of total reactants.

And, quoting your link: "The particular soybean-oil emulsion investigated here was first marketed as a moisture
repellent for wood decking and currently used for pervious concrete curing."

Definitely not just plain soybean oil. On the other hand, on a hot day, your treatment might be useful to cook non stick eggs!
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Anyone has any experience with concrete sealing?


Yes, I found out by accident that regular ol' Armor All seals concrete VERY well. Seriously.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Anyone has any experience with concrete sealing?


Yes, I found out by accident that regular ol' Armor All seals concrete VERY well. Seriously.


Interesting. The cheapest I found is $14/64oz.
http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/2000-protectant/26811.html
I have almost 2000 sf of driveway and sidewalk. 1 gal of sealer usually covers 100-300 sf. The Armor All would cost ~$280.
Soybean oil would cost only $26 at Sams Club.

I know that soybean oil works, it just darkens the concrete. This is based on my test spots and this patent:
http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/5647899.html

Quote:
EXAMPLE I

A sealing composition for concrete was prepared comprising essentially of a non-refined soya oil.

[...]

The results were as follows:

EXAMPLE I--It was observed that the composition was effective for sealing against water penetration. However, severe surface discoloration was observed.
 
I've been using vegetable oil as a window rubber sealant, rust treatment (with aluminium foil abrasive) and tyre treatment (to prevent/slow surface cracking) for a while now.

Soya oil grows a black mould in the first two applications and, although its cheapest, I'd stopped using it before I started the tyre treatment. I think its apparently greater encouragement of mould may be due to a greater protein or carbohydrate content.

Sunflower oil works well in the first two applications. Its relatively unstable, since it has more double/unsaturated bonds, so it oxidises slowly and eventually sets hard.This might be an advantage for concrete treatment since your surface wouldnt be so sticky.

Its the basis for use as a tyre protectent, but I found it was absorbed by the tyre quite quickly. I'm unsure of the effect of an unstable "setting" oil inside the tyre carcass and may try a more stable oil in this application, perhaps castor or cannola
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe
You are kinda right on the first part. The Malaysian paper about the motor oil notes a decrease in 'oxygen permeability' which should prevent water and oxygen from reaching the reinforcing steel. Metal expands when it rusts.

From your original post, it sounded like you wanted to keep your concrete looking nice for longer. If that is the case, I am puzzled why you want to dump used motor oil over it??


Sorta, most of the concrete degradation that I'm familiar with is the reduction in alkilinity as carbonation occurs (acid from outside)...it progresses through the concrete, and when it hits the reo, it causes the breakout and spalling.

Preventing air getting to it helps (you can re-alk the concrete with an electolyte and impressed current, and cubic $$$).
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I did some more research and looks like soybean oil is the way to go. Soybean makes the top surface of concrete stronger and resistant to wear and ice scaling.


Soybean oil is a drying oil, like linseed and fish oil and all of those other sealants that are used to stop rust etc.

Lino comes from linseed oil, where it is oxidised, causing polymerisation, and forms a durable plastic, and the soy is doing the same thing.

Any oil that forms a crust around the lid when sitting in the pantry will do the same, to a greater or lesser extent (imagine what it's doing when it is circulating in a 100F highly oxidative bath ???)

Engine oil isn't that type of oil, as it's fairly saturated in the first place.

If you are going to do it, pick a cheap drying oil, thin it a bit to "get in" and do multiple coats.

I've got a book on concrete counter tops that recommends bees wax as a sealer...but that's purely a mechanical type sealing.
 
I see the thread was revived recently.

I didn't seal the concrete after all. My wife was opposed to putting anything on it that would interfere with its bright, clean look after cleaning (the test spots darkened slightly with either oils).

That was a big mistake. The concrete has dark, dirty look several months later.

Next time we clean it, I will seal it for sure.
 
I never understood the concept of sealing concrete flat-work, aside from trying to protect it from wintertime road salt? [/quote]

State DOT's treat the concrete surfaces to protect against winter road salt.
I have a concrete drive about 250 ft long that is 51 years old (in Ga.), never treated.
The aggregate is showing on the surface due to the fact that years of weather have worn away the surface "gout". Drive is still in use. I spent 34 with a state DOT in highway const. I would not seal concrete unless using salt on a regular basis. My $0.02.
 
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