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UOA article - what is "normal" #2780790
10/23/12 04:59 AM
10/23/12 04:59 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,811
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline OP
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dnewton3  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2007
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Indianapolis, IN

Last edited by dnewton3; 10/23/12 05:45 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2780862
10/23/12 08:10 AM
10/23/12 08:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,213
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline

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Michigan
Is that an article that you have just posted, or has it been on BITOG for a while? Regardless, thanks for the educational read!


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2780889
10/23/12 08:41 AM
10/23/12 08:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,478
Iowa
Samilcar Offline
Samilcar  Offline

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Iowa
Great article.

Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: A_Harman] #2781094
10/23/12 11:35 AM
10/23/12 11:35 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,811
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline OP
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dnewton3  Offline OP
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Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Is that an article that you have just posted, or has it been on BITOG for a while? Regardless, thanks for the educational read!


Wrote the bulk of it this month on vacation; been in editing and formatting for about a week.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781368
10/23/12 03:27 PM
10/23/12 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,682
WatUpDoc
ltslimjim Offline
ltslimjim  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
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WatUpDoc
Very nice. thumbsup


92 Civic Hatch (stolen frown RIP)
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Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781508
10/23/12 05:49 PM
10/23/12 05:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Winnipeg Manitoba
DanMiller Offline
DanMiller  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Winnipeg Manitoba
Very good article, what oil do you like based on all of the UOAs you have seen ? Are you a thick or thin oil believer ?

Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781539
10/23/12 06:19 PM
10/23/12 06:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 39,197
Ontario, Canada
Excellent article thumbsup


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781562
10/23/12 06:35 PM
10/23/12 06:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,180
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

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Fredericksburg, VA
Thank you for the great article, Dave!

Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781611
10/23/12 07:12 PM
10/23/12 07:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 31,110
NJ
buster Offline
buster  Offline

Joined: Nov 2002
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NJ
Thanks Dave! thumbsup

Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781850
10/24/12 12:35 AM
10/24/12 12:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Winnipeg Manitoba
DanMiller Offline
DanMiller  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 121
Winnipeg Manitoba
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2781854
10/24/12 01:12 AM
10/24/12 01:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,783
Saskatoon canada
Clevy Offline
Clevy  Offline

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Posts: 9,783
Saskatoon canada
That was a great article. Very enlightening. Wear rates going down as the oil gets more miles was very informative. Thank you for the enlightening information.


2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2782578
10/24/12 06:13 PM
10/24/12 06:13 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,481
OH
fdcg27 Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,481
OH
Really informative.
We here tend to get all excited about small differences in wear metals per thousand miles, but you have put it in perspective.
Maybe the only real use of UOAs is to find gross anomalies, like coolant leaking into the engine oil, or TBN and TAN as well as shear to determine oil life.


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Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: DanMiller] #2782700
10/24/12 07:50 PM
10/24/12 07:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,059
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
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Posts: 37,059
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

Why? Filter efficiency increases with age/miles as well.

Only if you have a seriously sludged up engine that you should change filter more frequently, but then you should not be running extended OCIs either.


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Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: Quattro Pete] #2782944
10/25/12 01:22 AM
10/25/12 01:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 19,528
Lake Forest, CA
HTSS_TR Offline
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Lake Forest, CA
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: DanMiller
Since leaving Oil in longer is better for wear numbers would it make sense to change the Oil filter in between Oil changes ?

Why? Filter efficiency increases with age/miles as well.

Only if you have a seriously sludged up engine that you should change filter more frequently, but then you should not be running extended OCIs either.

I agree. I'm thinking about leaving cartridge oil filter in the E430 for 2 OCI's of 10-12k miles each OCI. I will inspect the oil filter carefully on the next oil change and re-use it if the filter is in good shape and I don't see any debris. The capacity of the fleece filter is more than 10 grams, it is not possible for the engine to generate more than 2-3 grams in 10k miles.


'00 MB E430
'04 Honda S2000
'06 Volvo V70
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"Throwing food away is like stealing it from the poor and hungry" Pope Francis
Re: UOA article - what is "normal" [Re: dnewton3] #2782965
10/25/12 04:52 AM
10/25/12 04:52 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 7,811
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline OP
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dnewton3  Offline OP
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Indianapolis, IN
The only way to know for sure it to get some PCs done (particle count analysis).

However, I would contend this; the OEM typically is as conservative with the FCI as they are the OCI.

There are a few notable exceptions. One such example is my (new to me) 2000 Galant with 2.4L engine. The "normal" OCI is 7.5k miles and the FCI is every other oil change, hence every 15k miles. That is with any filter that meets their OEM specs. And there are a whole host of filters from Purolator, Wix, Fram, etc that meet/exceed those specs, right on Wally's shelf. I am not saying all FCIs can be extended that far, but I am saying that as long as your UOA is showing good lube and engine health, the FCI should be able to at least go as long as the OCI. Only if your soot/involubles/oxidation were the drastically escalate in the UOA, would it indicate a need for FCI.

For my vehicles in warranty, (which I'm now down to only one), I am following the OEM criteria for O/FCIs. But for my other stuff, I'm beginning to push even the "normal" OCIs out and using the same filter for that duration.

I am going to put my money where my mouth is, too. I have an upcoming trip out west; we'll be taking my 1995 Villager that has 225k miles on it, and an estimated 6k on the oil by the time we leave. I expect it will have near 10k miles on the lube when we return. I look forward to seeing the UOA when I get back. Am I nervous? You bet I am; I'm always nervous a bit when I try something new. But I have faith in my data streams and SAE studies I've read. This is solid science; just because it's hard to believe, do not make it untrue.

Last edited by dnewton3; 10/25/12 04:55 AM.

The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
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