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Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: ethangsmith] #2733861 09/03/12 07:21 PM
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steve20 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ethangsmith
Fuel filter is brand new. The old one had some tan sediment in the bottom of it, so I just put a new one on.

I too am beginning to wonder if the Startron took all of the water that was accumulating in the tank and sent it through the system. It's certainly possible!


If there was that much water in your tank-----you may have just saved yourself from replacing a rusted out gas tank----water settles in the bottom of the tank and eventually rusts thru. Bet it is not easy to find a gas tank for an 86 Capri



Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: steve20] #2733887 09/03/12 07:45 PM
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ethangsmith Offline OP
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I can get reproduction tanks since it is the same tank the 79-85 Mustang 5.0L cars used, but they are not easy to get and can be quite expensive. Not to mention having to drop the old tank and put the new one in- I'm sure the lock rings on the sender and other stuff are rusted fast, as are the fuel tank straps and hardware. Not something I'd like to do! So in that respect, if the Startron did in fact scavenge all the water and shove it through, it did save me some grief!


86 Capri
11 Ranger
10 Focus
Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: ethangsmith] #2733928 09/03/12 08:19 PM
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TurboJim Offline
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Star Tron comes in two strengths. NAPA and Wal-Mart sell the stronger version. A less potent version is sold at AutoZone. When you first use Star Tron you are supposed to give it a double dose.

Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: TurboJim] #2733966 09/03/12 09:18 PM
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ethangsmith Offline OP
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Yep. I bought mine at NAPA and followed the "double dose" instructions on the back of the bottle.


Is it actually feasible that the Startron really is gathering the accumulated water in the fuel tank and sending it through the system???


86 Capri
11 Ranger
10 Focus
Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: ethangsmith] #2733990 09/03/12 10:07 PM
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tommygunn Offline
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I've heard it's "impossible" to overdose with StarTron......sure, that 6 (or was it 8 oz?) bottle "says" it'll treat 150 gallons....but I just went ahead and dumped the whole bottle into a 14 gallon tank......I didn't notice any drive difference though :P

I read somewhere though, the "IsoHEET" is soon to be the new additive of choice......something to do with ethanol "sapping water" out of the fuel, or something.......or even from the air (humidity....?), tank after tank with 10% ethanol and supposidely condensation starts building up or something.....and so the IsoHEET is supposed to help dry it up, with the IPA dose.....(which is also contained in Seafoam, Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL, among others.....)



But yea....no adds can "remove ethanol" - most simply just are a "lubricity agent" at best....since ethanol-laced fuel is inherently "dry"....they add some lubricity back to the fuel.....


i am a [censored] who hides behind bugmenot.
i also like applying negative pressure to a certain male appendage.
Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: ethangsmith] #2734597 09/04/12 02:04 PM
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greenisgood Offline
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Sorry to hear you are having problems with your fuel. Your belief that StarTron removes ethanol is incorrect, as other blog posts noted. Starbrite certainly does not state that StarTron removes ethanol. Ethanol, or "ethyl alcohol", is dispersed in gasoline, but it is not chemically bonded. Ethanol is just close enough in molecular size and characteristics to remain suspended in gasoline, provided the gas is dry. Gasoline hates water, and the two will not mix. However, ethanol loves water, and E10 gas does attract moisture, so as your car sits for months, it builds up in the air space above the fuel, and some water condenses and runs down the tank sides to the bottom of the tank, and some water attaches to the ethanol suspended in the gas. All is fine if you drive the car occasionally, as the agitation kicks the water up off the bottom and it gets burned off harmlessly. Startron improves this as I'll note later. The problem comes from when you don't drive the car. Each day the fuel and air space warm up and expand, then at night, they (air and gas) cool down and condense, so in effect, your tank is breathing. The more air space (lower fuel level) the more breathing, which means more moisture. As it builds up in the tank and gasoline, eventually, the water saturates enough ethanol, which is now far heavier than the gasoline, and it separates, but not just the saturated (hydrated) ethanol. Again, the ethanol was not chemically bonded to the hydrocarbons, so it's like a tipping point, and the dissolved water, although quite small, causes a huge fall-out of ethanol. It only takes about 0.5-0.6% water to cause this phenomenon, which is called phase separation. However, there is usually pooled water on the bottom of the tank in significant quantities, plus you now lost up to half of the ethanol, so you have a water/ethanol layer on the bottom the car won't run on. This is likely what you are experiencing.
Startron reduces the interfacial surface tension between water and hydrocarbons (gasoline), and has no direct chemical interaction with ethanol. Reducing the surface tension allows small amounts of water to be easily dispersed into the gasoline in ultra-fine drops, which enhances removal of the water during operation. But if the vehicle isn't run, it can't actually remove the water, so it continues to build up through condensation.
If you have a full tank, it's hard to get phase separation, which is why boat owners are advised to fill their tanks after each use. Cars are often ignored because their fuel tanks are typically smaller and fuel turnover is faster. And fuel injected systems are pretty air- tight. Older carbureted cars are not as air-tight, and if they are parked for months, are more likely to experience phase separation.
By using StarTron, your carburetor remains clean, as you have seen, and the hydrocarbon portion of the gas is protected from aging and oxidation, and if you run the vehicle once every couple of months, you will keep removing water bottoms (from condensation running down the tank walls) before it has a chance to reach phase separation. Also, keep the tank full, and you are well-protected against phase separation.
Finally, regarding boiling points. Water boils at 212 deg. F. Ethanol, about 170 deg. F and gasoline is all over the board, because it's not a single chemical, but hundreds of hydrocarbons. Most of what's in gasoline will boil far below water. Older carbureted cars have problems with starting in cold weather as ethanol won't easily vaporize, and this also presents as a boiling problem in extremely hot weather. That's also beyond the reach of Startron, or any fuel chemical additive. When the EPA mandated ethanol in the fuel, they took the approach that these "legacy" cars are disposable. They want them off the roads because old engine technologies are as much as 10 times higher in emissions than new cars. Starbrite, as well as other additive manufacturers, design products to mitigate many of the problems caused by ethanol, which allows people to keep their older equipment running. Most of them have at least some impact. I feel that StarTron is the best additive for E10 because it is also a combustion catalyst which reduces emissions, and you can feel confident that you are doing all you can do to be environmentally sound, without having to throw away your equipment. That sets it apart from most fuel additives. However, regardless of which of the many fuel additives you choose, you will have to adopt "marine" fuel housekeeping techniques to keep your 1986 Capri operational.

Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: greenisgood] #2734632 09/04/12 02:36 PM
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ethangsmith Offline OP
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AWESOME info and thank you for that! It would seem that I did get to the point of phase separation in the fuel. We've had a very hot, humid summer this year- which probably is why I'm having the issues now. It makes sense that the water and ethanol is what I'm getting through the fuel lines as it really runs strangely and the exhaust smells very odd during these times. Today I did just refill the tank and drove the car. We're getting thunderstorms this evening and over the next few days, so it will sit again, but I think before winter hits I'll try to put some miles on the car. I also switched from Hess premium fuel down to Hess 87 octane. I want to see if the car pings at all and also what effect lower octane fuel will have on it.


86 Capri
11 Ranger
10 Focus
Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: greenisgood] #2735650 09/05/12 05:50 PM
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doitmyself Offline
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Originally Posted By: greenisgood

By using StarTron, your carburetor remains clean, as you have seen, and the hydrocarbon portion of the gas is protected from aging and oxidation, and if you run the vehicle once every couple of months,.......


Folks, please read greenisgood's post VERY carefully. What he is saying is that Star Tron (like all "good" ethanol additives) is not a cure all, silver bullet for the "supposed" mythical problems of ethanol fuel. It cleans and it slows oxidation (aging). The same thing all others (the "good ones") claim. Surprise, surprise.

Good write up, greenisgood, dispelling the mythical qualities of Star Tron (or any additive) and emphasizing that the real solution is in enhanced fuel management....keep it fresh, keep your tank full, etc.. IMO, these E 10 additives are just to "help a little".

Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: ethangsmith] #2764037 10/05/12 03:47 PM
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ethangsmith Offline OP
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An update on this:

The weather is cooler here in PA now, so the threat of fuel boiling is much less and I haven not had any further issues. I also switched from premium fuel to regular fuel for a cost savings and turned the base ignition timing down a few degrees. The engine runs fine and since I am using cheaper fuel now, I've been driving it much more that previously. I've had a tank or 2 of regular gas through it already.


86 Capri
11 Ranger
10 Focus
Re: Startron enzyme treatment- problems. [Re: greenisgood] #2769118 10/10/12 07:46 PM
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Just_Askin Offline
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Thank you. That was just the info I had on Startron. I use it
in all of my gas engines.

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