2013 Nissan Altima 0w20 oil

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: bourne

since we all know the definition of "synthetic" isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I don't agree with that. If an oil is labelled as synthetic we know it's at least GP III based so it's made with higher quality base oil stocks than a dino. Many of the "best" oils available are GP III based, such as Toyota 0W-20, Sustina, and M1 0W-40. Same generally goes for 0W-XX oils vs 5W-XX oils.

It's a newbie thing to want to generalize oils either by SAE grade and/or synthetic or conventional. There is such a hugh variation in those groupings to render any characterisations as largely useless. With experience one learns that they must talk about specific oils to draw any valid conclusions.

 

[1999nick]

Well, Caterham, I fully agree with his statement about essentially regular oil being labelled synthetic. It really angers me to see an oil that is 100% GP III call itself "full synthetic". I know that its a lie, and I don't like to be lied to.

I used Mobil 1 from the time it was introduced back in the 1970's to the present. Until I retired back in 2001, it was used for one year, 18,000 to 20,000 mile OCI's. It was never a problem, and my engines were always as quiet at 140,000 miles as they were brand-new.

I still use M1 0W40 for a one year OCI now, but that is only about 9,000 miles now that I am retired and old. (I'll be 76 in a month and a half.)

I do not know how close my M1 0W40 is to being synthetic, but no characterization is going to make dino oil into real synthetic. If you call dino synthetic, you are lying to the public, even if the highly refined dino is equal to or even better than synthetic.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I do not know how close my M1 0W40 is to being synthetic, but no characterization is going to make dino oil into real synthetic. If you call dino synthetic, you are lying to the public, even if the highly refined dino is equal to or even better than synthetic.

I would hope that you'd agree a GP III based oil is still superior to a GP II based oil.
The last M1 0W-40 that was still largely PAO based were the SM GF-4 oils. The current GF-5 SN version of M1 0W-40 no longer uses any PAO just GP III+ and AN (GP V) primarily. And while it's extreme cold performance and oxidative stability have suffered as a result, most would agree that it is still an excellent product with no peers for the price.

 

[dparm]

The "not a real synthetic" thing needs to die.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
I don't agree with that. If an oil is labelled as synthetic we know it's at least GP III based so it's made with higher quality base oil stocks than a dino. Many of the "best" oils available are GP III based, such as Toyota 0W-20, Sustina, and M1 0W-40. Same generally goes for 0W-XX oils vs 5W-XX oils.


I agree with that to a point. If it's an Eneos, SOPUS, XOM, or Ashland product, or from the other big, respectable names (and the smaller ones like RLI, Red Line, Amsoil, and RP), I trust their definition of "full synthetic" and have no real problem with a Group III being labelled as a synthetic. It's others I don't trust so much.

The majors (and the boutique minors) at least list some approvals or "meets or exceeds" or is "suitable for use" for some ACEA or proprietary European specifications. Realistically, you and I both know that products like GC and M1 0w-40 could eliminate the word "synthetic" from their North American labelling altogether. A good portion of their sales are based upon European approvals in the first place, and people are buying them because they're on their Benz/BMW/VW list, not because of any marketing words on the label. Some people groan over the possibility that M1 0w-40 is no longer Group IV. Its approval sheet is the same, so it really doesn't matter.

And I wouldn't want to characterize the desire to generalize oils by SAE grade and/or synthetic versus conventional as strictly a newbie thing. If certain automakers are dumb enough or brave enough to actually print that synthetic is required and list an SAE grade and API/ILSAC requirement (without listing some more relevant specification), then discussions like this one will arise, or owners will simply be confused and be at the mercy of fancy marketing.

After all, aren't GC, M1 0w-40, Delvac 1, RP HPS, Amsoil's top end stuff, and Red Line the only "real" synthetics on the market? But wait, M1 0w-40 and Delvac 1 are the wrong grade. None of these have modern API/ILSAC specifications. And, oh yeah, the "full synthetic" complaint is hogwash to begin with.

I've given GM both grief and kudos for their dexos1 specification. With respect to the latter, at least that specification makes some sort of sense for what they're purportedly trying to accomplish. If a manufacturer needs something beyond an API/ILSAC oil, then they should look at ACEA specifications or come up with something of their own.

Insisting on a "full synthetic" SN/GF-5 is simply an argument waiting to happen. You and I know what that means and what would fall within requirements. Plenty don't. The Europeans figured out years ago how to avoid this problem, irrespective of German labelling laws. GM figured it out a long time ago with their Vette spec and their more recent dexos1 specification. It would appear that certain Japanese manufacturers wish to learn this lesson independently, without the benefit of learning from others' mistakes.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: dparm
The "not a real synthetic" thing needs to die.


Argh. Totally agreed.

 

[mobilaltima]

I had a 2002 model ,first year for the QR25DE engine, gave it [censored] from 89k to 115k, when i got rid of it. pretty darn reliable. "ate the catalyst" at 103k, which i remedied with a header. I think they solved the problem on the 07 models, problem seemed to persist on the 02-06 models.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dparm
The "not a real synthetic" thing needs to die.


Argh. Totally agreed.
No freaking way. BIG performance deficit between group III and the higher group blends in use. My subie motor just got terribly sludged up running a modest 6k oci on Fake syn (unless the dealer pulled a fast one on me!
Go look at Castrol Synpower web page and guess which oil has a -65F pour point. That may be appreciated up north. Me, I'm not going out the front door if its one degree F under -15

I do agree to spec high performance lubricants based on high performance Deutsche approvals regardless of tech syn or fake syn.
Ps: The Dino oil thing has to die - and most grIII is dino

 

[MrWideTires]

That engine has no problems with 0w20.. I have an 04 SpecV with that engine, the QR25 is known for burning oil... but I ran mine on 0w20 for years while racing it and it didn't burn any oil, we even over-revved it to over 8000rpm on that oil many times, now it has 140k miles and still has perfect compression and doesn't burn any oil. Now I use 0w40 though, QR25 has flat buckets and a timing chain, so it's probably a good idea to eventually step it up after 100k miles.

 

[dparm]

Pour point? Who cares. Worthless spec.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: dparm
The "not a real synthetic" thing needs to die.


Argh. Totally agreed.
No freaking way. BIG performance deficit between group III and the higher group blends in use. My subie motor just got terribly sludged up running a modest 6k oci on Fake syn (unless the dealer pulled a fast one on me!
Go look at Castrol Synpower web page and guess which oil has a -65F pour point. That may be appreciated up north. Me, I'm not going out the front door if its one degree F under -15

I do agree to spec high performance lubricants based on high performance Deutsche approvals regardless of tech syn or fake syn.
Ps: The Dino oil thing has to die - and most grIII is dino


could we see some pics of this sludge.. otherwise I wont be believing it any time soon.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Nice guy!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
My subie motor just got terribly sludged up running a modest 6k oci on Fake syn (unless the dealer pulled a fast one on me!


I would think they pulled a fast one, Arco. Either that, or given your history, I'll have to introduce you to my buddy who is capable of overheating any vehicle in existence, and could probably overheat an air cooled snowblower in -40.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Yeah,surprising as I didnt have issues with dark brown varnish all over the inside of VVT housing (which you can see through the oil fill) when I was installing the oil - which I poured out of quart bottles of genuine subaru oil that I bout buy the case. The dealer charged me for 6 qts of genuine subaru oil on the R.O - but I have my doubts as this Subaru dealer is know to be a bit "slimey". Well, I have PP ow20 in there now and we'll see how that goes - I expect it to do fine in a 5.5qt sump in a 2.5 litre engine with no turbo. Needles to say Im not going back to that subaru dealer for a $100.00 OC again.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Needles to say Im not going back to that subaru dealer for a $100.00 OC again.


Good grief, he's charging Canadian oil change prices.