I have a man here with a 2005 Chevy K3500 dually with the 6.0 gas engine. He is complaining about getting 10 mpg with it. He has asked about getting a cold air induction intake system, but I think he may get more bang for the buck with a reprogram or a programmer like the Hypertech Econ. I have a friend who owns a Corvette and Viper performance shop he has a dyno and does custom programming. I will call him tomorrow to see what he can offer, but I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with power programmers? I know that programmers and exhaust make a big difference in deisel trucks and LS series engines can get decent power gains, but what about fuel mileage?
Power programmers
- Thread starter AVB
- Start date
- Status
I have the Autotech http://atechmotor.com/volvo/c30/t5/ remap for my volvo as well as the Simons avgassystem catback http://www.simons.se/ and haven't noticed an increase in MPG. Remap + catback 50hp gain over stock 230hp. This is on a turbo 2.5L 5 cyl (yes it's a 5 banger lol) alot of people claim to get a slight increase in mileage 1-2 mpg with a remap due to the increased torque so this may help in towing applications. I have used the cold air intake system on a previous car and found mileage to get worse, The ECU (computer) will increase the amount of fuel to compensate for the increased air to the cylinders to balance out the A/F ratio, at least in my experience. All remaps aren't equal some take into account the mods of a particular vehicle some are made for stock "canned remaps" so to speak
Cold air is more dense and requires more fuel to reach a stoichiometric ratio. On a diesel, more air is better because they run fundamentally different then gas engines. For best mileage, keep the stock intake on the truck.
Cold air intakes giving more fuel economy on a gas engine is a fraud, it has no sensibility in terms of physics.
As for chipping it that is a real [censored] shoot. Assuming the engine is all properly tuned up, tires are fully inflated, transmission and all that is properly serviced, then I'd go there; but you're never gonna get power and fuel economy...on a gasoline engine you get one or the other. There is no free lunch.
It might be possible to de-tune the engine in such a way that you get slightly better MPG, but its probably going to be a nightmare. You'd be better off making sure the truck is in top shape, driving slower, and driving smarter, and maybe overinflating the tires a little, then the cost of chipping it.
Edit: Tuning for more low end torque and shifting earlier should give you an MPG or two, but if the transmission is an automatic expect it to be impossible to convince to upshift early and stay there to take advantage of any additional torque you get from it.
Cold air intakes giving more fuel economy on a gas engine is a fraud, it has no sensibility in terms of physics.
As for chipping it that is a real [censored] shoot. Assuming the engine is all properly tuned up, tires are fully inflated, transmission and all that is properly serviced, then I'd go there; but you're never gonna get power and fuel economy...on a gasoline engine you get one or the other. There is no free lunch.
It might be possible to de-tune the engine in such a way that you get slightly better MPG, but its probably going to be a nightmare. You'd be better off making sure the truck is in top shape, driving slower, and driving smarter, and maybe overinflating the tires a little, then the cost of chipping it.
Edit: Tuning for more low end torque and shifting earlier should give you an MPG or two, but if the transmission is an automatic expect it to be impossible to convince to upshift early and stay there to take advantage of any additional torque you get from it.
Last edited:
As far as a remap goes unless the company that makes/sells the tune stands behind it with a 100% guarantee of better fuel economy or your money back I wouldn't waste my time or effort in this case. I am very satisfied with mine. 50hp more with no loss of fuel economy. I wanted my remap for performance vs economy.I definitely agree with tommygunn on the cold air intake issue, keep it stock.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Is it a DRW truck?
He will most likely do better with a custom dyno tune as is the case with most LSx based vehicles like his truck. I have had 5 LSx based vechicles. I own two of them right now.
But better MPG? I doubt it. None of mine have done any better with just a tune.
As seen on must LSX trucks an Exhaust, CAI tune could net 1 mpg...Maybe, but on 6.0 3500? I just don't see it.
10 MPG seems low, but my SRW 2WD 6.0 truck gets only about 15 unloaded and 8 towing on the Highway. All together my truck averages about 12 to 14 mpg unloaded.
How many miles? Last tune up? What gears?
He will most likely do better with a custom dyno tune as is the case with most LSx based vehicles like his truck. I have had 5 LSx based vechicles. I own two of them right now.
But better MPG? I doubt it. None of mine have done any better with just a tune.
As seen on must LSX trucks an Exhaust, CAI tune could net 1 mpg...Maybe, but on 6.0 3500? I just don't see it.
10 MPG seems low, but my SRW 2WD 6.0 truck gets only about 15 unloaded and 8 towing on the Highway. All together my truck averages about 12 to 14 mpg unloaded.
How many miles? Last tune up? What gears?
And please tell me what dually you've owned that did any better on gasoline? C'mon, man, they're ALL hogs!
And they vary by a lot. I have one 3500 Savana with a 6.0 that has gotten 16 mpg IN THE CITY! This is pretty decent for a vehicle with 3.73 gears and a 9000+ pound weight every morning!
I have another with identical driveline, weight, gearing, that gets 8. Our many others are in between these extremes.
Driving them feels like 2 different trucks. So there is a LOT of variance among even identical trucks.
And they vary by a lot. I have one 3500 Savana with a 6.0 that has gotten 16 mpg IN THE CITY! This is pretty decent for a vehicle with 3.73 gears and a 9000+ pound weight every morning!
I have another with identical driveline, weight, gearing, that gets 8. Our many others are in between these extremes.
Driving them feels like 2 different trucks. So there is a LOT of variance among even identical trucks.
Tell him to sell it and buy a diesel. I've heard some getting 1000 hp and low 20 mpgs, lol.
The problem with programmers is they have very limited experience, low budgets and ability to test longevity of the tweaks.
They are not research scientists(at top) but simply figuring it out with a dyno and limited experience. Typically HP is what they do which is easy to see instant result. Longevity is another matter. The other hard issue is natural aspirated motors don't have as much flex as say a forced induction.
They are not research scientists(at top) but simply figuring it out with a dyno and limited experience. Typically HP is what they do which is easy to see instant result. Longevity is another matter. The other hard issue is natural aspirated motors don't have as much flex as say a forced induction.
This is textbook gasser vs. diesel-my F-450 with it's 10ft high service body (measured from the ground) does better than that-if it had the 460 instead of the 7.3 it would get 7 MPG instead of 12! If he's driving a gas dually he should be able to afford gas!
Yes, it is a dual rear wheel 4x4. I am not sure about the gearing, he thinks the truck has around 100,000 miles on it the odo shows 72,000. I don't know how much highway mileage it sees, I would guess 40% or less. I figured it would take headers, catback system, induction system, and a custom tune to make a noticeable difference.
Originally Posted By: tommygunn
Cold air is more dense and requires more fuel to reach a stoichiometric ratio. On a diesel, more air is better because they run fundamentally different then gas engines. For best mileage, keep the stock intake on the truck.
Cold air intakes giving more fuel economy on a gas engine is a fraud, it has no sensibility in terms of physics.
As for chipping it that is a real [censored] shoot. Assuming the engine is all properly tuned up, tires are fully inflated, transmission and all that is properly serviced, then I'd go there; but you're never gonna get power and fuel economy...on a gasoline engine you get one or the other. There is no free lunch.
It might be possible to de-tune the engine in such a way that you get slightly better MPG, but its probably going to be a nightmare. You'd be better off making sure the truck is in top shape, driving slower, and driving smarter, and maybe overinflating the tires a little, then the cost of chipping it.
Edit: Tuning for more low end torque and shifting earlier should give you an MPG or two, but if the transmission is an automatic expect it to be impossible to convince to upshift early and stay there to take advantage of any additional torque you get from it.
The AF is controlled by the O2 sensor and computer. Denser air allows for less throttle opening.The total required for whatever HP required is exactly the same. At WOT, more is available.
Cold air is more dense and requires more fuel to reach a stoichiometric ratio. On a diesel, more air is better because they run fundamentally different then gas engines. For best mileage, keep the stock intake on the truck.
Cold air intakes giving more fuel economy on a gas engine is a fraud, it has no sensibility in terms of physics.
As for chipping it that is a real [censored] shoot. Assuming the engine is all properly tuned up, tires are fully inflated, transmission and all that is properly serviced, then I'd go there; but you're never gonna get power and fuel economy...on a gasoline engine you get one or the other. There is no free lunch.
It might be possible to de-tune the engine in such a way that you get slightly better MPG, but its probably going to be a nightmare. You'd be better off making sure the truck is in top shape, driving slower, and driving smarter, and maybe overinflating the tires a little, then the cost of chipping it.
Edit: Tuning for more low end torque and shifting earlier should give you an MPG or two, but if the transmission is an automatic expect it to be impossible to convince to upshift early and stay there to take advantage of any additional torque you get from it.
The AF is controlled by the O2 sensor and computer. Denser air allows for less throttle opening.The total required for whatever HP required is exactly the same. At WOT, more is available.
Theoretically, yes. More pumping losses.
But there is no way around it - it is a theoretical downside to overall efficiency..
The gains for open throttle power are worth it - who want less power when demanded?
Also, any pumping losses may be more than compensated for by the increased vaporization of the fuel at slightly higher vacuum.
But there is no way around it - it is a theoretical downside to overall efficiency..
The gains for open throttle power are worth it - who want less power when demanded?
Also, any pumping losses may be more than compensated for by the increased vaporization of the fuel at slightly higher vacuum.
Broad sweeping generalizations do not apply in the aftermarket tuning world.
Extreme differences exist between platforms, as both tuners and the cars tuned vary. In my car a Superchips tuner is a joke, while a Diablosport tuner is the real deal. And most 'canned' tunes simply do not have as much adjustability as a CMR tune on a dyno by a properly trained person.
Plus some cars are encrypted now so you cannot tune them at all!
Extreme differences exist between platforms, as both tuners and the cars tuned vary. In my car a Superchips tuner is a joke, while a Diablosport tuner is the real deal. And most 'canned' tunes simply do not have as much adjustability as a CMR tune on a dyno by a properly trained person.
Plus some cars are encrypted now so you cannot tune them at all!
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Broad sweeping generalizations do not apply in the aftermarket tuning world.
Extreme differences exist between platforms, as both tuners and the cars tuned vary. In my car a Superchips tuner is a joke, while a Diablosport tuner is the real deal. And most 'canned' tunes simply do not have as much adjustability as a CMR tune on a dyno by a properly trained person.
Plus some cars are encrypted now so you cannot tune them at all!
Right someone it this thread said tuners have limited experience and it hurts longevity. He has not been around any LSx or Mod motor stuff. Plenty of heads and Cam dyno tuned LSxs running around with high miles, same goes for Mod motors. Plenty of knowledge and experience when it comes to tuning late model EFI cars that are modified by the hot rod crowd. The 6.0 is one of them.
Generally a tune is not going to give you better MPG and the more mods you do the more the tune will help.
I have the Diablo, it is ok. I had to bump up to HP tuners and a Dyno when I did the heads and Cam on the Trans Am.
Broad sweeping generalizations do not apply in the aftermarket tuning world.
Extreme differences exist between platforms, as both tuners and the cars tuned vary. In my car a Superchips tuner is a joke, while a Diablosport tuner is the real deal. And most 'canned' tunes simply do not have as much adjustability as a CMR tune on a dyno by a properly trained person.
Plus some cars are encrypted now so you cannot tune them at all!
Right someone it this thread said tuners have limited experience and it hurts longevity. He has not been around any LSx or Mod motor stuff. Plenty of heads and Cam dyno tuned LSxs running around with high miles, same goes for Mod motors. Plenty of knowledge and experience when it comes to tuning late model EFI cars that are modified by the hot rod crowd. The 6.0 is one of them.
Generally a tune is not going to give you better MPG and the more mods you do the more the tune will help.
I have the Diablo, it is ok. I had to bump up to HP tuners and a Dyno when I did the heads and Cam on the Trans Am.
All agreed here. In my platform Diablo is the only one to crack the code and go DEEP into the Chrysler computer for all the features like timing, mixture, and so on.
Many of their competitors do not offer this at all for new Gen Hemis.
Buyer beware, do your homework.
Many of their competitors do not offer this at all for new Gen Hemis.
Buyer beware, do your homework.
Just my opinion from past experience - Hypertec is garbage. My first bad experience with them was with their chip for my 87 Buick GN - awful. All it did was raise boost a little but nothing for fuel inrichment - purely a dangerous chip. Then I tried their power programmer for my 94 LT1 Corvette and while it didn't hurt anything it surely made no more power. Last example is a friend bought their econo power tuner looking for more MPG's...nothing. No improvement. The diablo, in the other hand, I am really wanting to get one for my 06 Sierra Denali with the 6.0L. I don't care about MPG's much, but want to eliminate the power/torque management. I get (according to the DIC) 12.8 in mostly city driving and the truck is AWD. So, with the bigger truck you are talking about and dual wheels..10 seems pretty good!
- Status
Similar threads
