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'03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi #2702204
08/01/12 07:00 PM
08/01/12 07:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
va3ux Offline OP
va3ux  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
Well - I can't see any reason to spend $60+ a jug on this stuff again. Sheared the same as everything else; wear metals no better. I don't know what to make of the fuel dilution after the previous analysis showed none. Error due to this being an Ester based oil ? Or real ? This sample was taken when the oil was hot enough to burn you, and after a 5 hour ride, all at 2500 - 3000 rpm. There's no city driving, no low speed, no lugging, no idling, no change in fuel map. Guess I'll recheck compression and take a closer look at the injectors.

Code:
2003 Kawasaki Meanstreak 1500 (1500 V Twin)
41,700 km on engine  (25,855 miles)
 3,200 km on oil     (2000 miles)

Motul 7100 10W40

Analysis by Fluid Life, Brantford, Ontario
July 31, 2012
                                             

Sodium                  0                      
Potassium               0                      
Silicon                34                     
Aluminum                5                      
Iron                   23                    
Copper                  8                     
Lead                    1                     
Tin                     0                     
Chromium                0                     
Calcium              2230                
Zinc                  990                
Phosphorous           874                 
Magnesium             106                  
Moly                    6                   
Boron                  77                  
                   
Fuel                 3.08%            
[email protected]                 75               
[email protected]              11.9        
VI                     155        

Oxid.(A/cm)            ---       
Nitr.(A/cm)            ---       
Sulf.(A/cm)            ---       



Previous analysis from just 2 weeks ago :

Code:
2003 Kawasaki Meanstreak 1500 (1500 V Twin)
38,500 km on engine  (23,870 miles)
 3,200 km on oil     (2000 miles)

Shell Rotella T6 5W40

Analysis by Fluid Life, Brantford, Ontario
July 24, 2012
                                             

Sodium                  1                      
Potassium               0                      
Silicon                10                     
Aluminum                5                      
Iron                   19                    
Copper                  8                     
Lead                    2                     
Tin                     0                     
Chromium                1                     
Calcium               995                
Zinc                 1230                
Phosphorous          1070                 
Magnesium             983                  
Moly                   55                   
Boron                  58                  
                   
Fuel                 < 0.6%            
[email protected]                 70               
[email protected]              11.5        
VI                     159        

Oxid.(A/cm)            1.96       
Nitr.(A/cm)            5.47       
Sulf.(A/cm)            0.1        



2001 Chrysler Intrepid 2.7L 505,000 km (313,000 miles) - now retired

2003 Kawasaki 1500 Mean Streak (50,000 km)
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702254
08/01/12 08:03 PM
08/01/12 08:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 368
Rochester, New York
johnnydc Offline
johnnydc  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 368
Rochester, New York
$60 for a jug wow. Looks like the Rotella worked good for you. Less iron too. Rotella is quite abit cheaper also.


2012 Ford Fusion SEL V6
2009 Mercury Milan Premier V6
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5/20 and Motorcraft Filters
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702366
08/01/12 09:43 PM
08/01/12 09:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
Wow ... I am surprised Ester Based oil and a little beat up like that after a 2000 mile run. I thought with ester being the real deal ... you wouldnt be seeing this.
Makes Mobile 1 and Amsoil look cheap and very effective?

The only wild card is the fuel which was much lower in the Rotella sample.


14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702383
08/01/12 10:02 PM
08/01/12 10:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
va3ux Offline OP
va3ux  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
Well Rotella T6 sheared down to water in 2K miles too, so it isn't any better. It's also a 2K mile oil in my opinion (in this engine). But I might as well spend less to get the same mediocre service life. So far, on a dollar-for-performance basis, the plain old Rotella T 15W40 is the winner. Run it to 1500 - 2000 miles (max) and just blindly change it.

I'm really hoping to find something that stays in grade a lot longer and produces better wear numbers. A 20W50 may be the only way to go in warm weather. But I believe in general, that thinner freer flowing oils are better (to a point) for overall lubrication.

And...maybe none of this matters at all. Maybe oils that shear down to a 10W30 are quite acceptable. Maybe the engineers knew that. So they tell us to start with something heavier that they know will shear down to something lighter but still be quite acceptable. I wish I knew.

I think I'd like to re-join the other 99.9% of motorcyclists who know nothing about this stuff. They just change their Kawasaki oil in their Kawasaki motorcycle every 3000 miles and continue to ride and enjoy, and put 60K-70K-80K miles on their bikes and don't seem to have any more problems than anyone else.

Last edited by va3ux; 08/01/12 10:04 PM.

2001 Chrysler Intrepid 2.7L 505,000 km (313,000 miles) - now retired

2003 Kawasaki 1500 Mean Streak (50,000 km)
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: alarmguy] #2702390
08/01/12 10:07 PM
08/01/12 10:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
va3ux Offline OP
va3ux  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Wow ... I am surprised Ester Based oil and a little beat up like that after a 2000 mile run. I thought with ester being the real deal ... you wouldnt be seeing this.
Makes Mobile 1 and Amsoil look cheap and very effective?

The only wild card is the fuel which was much lower in the Rotella sample.


I'm surprised too and I didn't expect to see it either. Big, tough, expensive ester oil - and it's all beat up in no time.

And I'm lookin' over there at your nice UOA with $4-a-quart Valvoline MC 20W50 - with envy !

Last edited by va3ux; 08/01/12 10:10 PM.

2001 Chrysler Intrepid 2.7L 505,000 km (313,000 miles) - now retired

2003 Kawasaki 1500 Mean Streak (50,000 km)
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702645
08/02/12 09:26 AM
08/02/12 09:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
Well, as you might know I am no fan of Rotella T 5/40.
Im no fan of any 5/40 in a shared sump. Simply because depending on the oil there may (or may not depending on brand) be just as much viscosity improver as a conventional, if so, as we can see by all these posts the darn synthetics shear as much as the standard dino.
Which leads me to agree with you, the Rotella 15/40 conventional is much better simply because you are starting out with a base of a 15 weight oil (instead of 5 or 10) and less viscosity improver is needed to make it act like a 40, therefore less to shear to begin with. I personally like Delo LE 400 15/40 but its not Jaso rated.

Yes, maybe none of this matters because I am sure the bike makers know the oil shears to a 30. However, you can tell by the shifting that it does shear as time goes on, that notchy feeling in the gear case does signal a thinner film on the gears.

One other thing for me personally is I am just as much or more concerned about the gear case. I think the engine will be fine with whatever but I prefer to be as close to a 40 or higher for the sake of the gears, not the engine.

AS far as the argument that the oil flows faster if it is thinner, yes true. but I am unsure if that is better.
Here is why (god I think way to much about oil*L*) ...
If the oil flows more easy, it gets to the moving parts more easy but then it would seem that it will be "squeezed" out more easy on the crankshaft bearings. Meaning, cylinder fires, explosion occurs in the combustion chamber and the top of the crankshaft bearing comes under intense pressure, this squeezes out the oil at the top of the bearing and wear occurs. Does it matter? I have no idea! *L*
But I do know and its proven, fact, in fact why the VR1 oils, there were older engines that had wear problems using synthetic, automobile, race engines too. Newer engines dont but what does that say about synthetic vs. conventional? Conventional seems to prevent wear in all kinds of situations and synthetic doesnt. One other thing, oil pumps in many bikes are not the most robust pumps in the world, they pump enough to do the job, to thin an oil might reduce the oil pressure, meaning more of it "slip by" for lack of better words. Also what about when you shut off the engine, run into a store or get some gas, does that thinner oil run off the surfaces of the engine faster leaving less film?

Also, except for the marketing by the oil companies, no true, industry accepted wear test ever showed synthetic oil showing less wear. In fact the only test I saw years ago, showed the conventional oil with less wear, though by a fraction.
Now with that said, some oil out there must better better but I say to the oil company, show me the proof.

But there is something to be said about a thicker film and again, that gear case ...

Disclaimer, these are my personal thoughts, its what makes me feel good about the oil I choose, are they all correct? I have no idea but the thoughts sound at least kind of sane. *L*

yes, most who dont give a thought about oil will be fine if they just change the stuff on time. I HATE when I read people pushing past oil change intervals because they are using synthetics, tht much I do know, they should not.

Last edited by alarmguy; 08/02/12 09:32 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702689
08/02/12 10:12 AM
08/02/12 10:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,952
Cedar Park, TX
sunruh Offline
sunruh  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,952
Cedar Park, TX
silicon jumped way up. now, is motul using silicon as an anti-foam or not? worse air filter or not?
iron was up. due to silicon or not? if not, then why?

please realize your cst is because of your 3% fuel. that
will totally kill your cst.

now you know why my signature is what it is!!!

depending on your ambient startup temps 20w50 might be a choice. in which case the valvoline VR1 is a top pick of mine and has been for 6+ years now.


motorcycle oil myth buster
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #2702810
08/02/12 12:27 PM
08/02/12 12:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
va3ux Offline OP
va3ux  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 963
Ontario, Canada
The PDS for Valvoline VR1 specifically says not to use in wet clutch motorcycles. But are people using it anyway with no apparent clutch problems ?


2001 Chrysler Intrepid 2.7L 505,000 km (313,000 miles) - now retired

2003 Kawasaki 1500 Mean Streak (50,000 km)
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: sunruh] #4333971
02/19/17 03:31 PM
02/19/17 03:31 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 121
Vienna, Austria
alex_at Offline
alex_at  Offline
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 121
Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted By: sunruh
silicon jumped way up. now, is motul using silicon as an anti-foam or not? worse air filter or not?
iron was up. due to silicon or not? if not, then why?

please realize your cst is because of your 3% fuel. that
will totally kill your cst.

now you know why my signature is what it is!!!

depending on your ambient startup temps 20w50 might be a choice. in which case the valvoline VR1 is a top pick of mine and has been for 6+ years now.


VR1 in a wet clutch environment?


@alarmguy what's your favorite pick in the Boulevard C50?



According to this recent (2015) VOA : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3721431/VOA_Motul_7100_4T_10W40
Motul has 9ppm of Silicon

Last edited by alex_at; 02/19/17 03:33 PM.
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: alex_at] #4334557
02/20/17 07:18 AM
02/20/17 07:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
alarmguy Offline
alarmguy  Offline
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,372
South Carolina
Originally Posted By: alex_at
Originally Posted By: sunruh
silicon jumped way up. now, is motul using silicon as an anti-foam or not? worse air filter or not?
iron was up. due to silicon or not? if not, then why?

please realize your cst is because of your 3% fuel. that
will totally kill your cst.

now you know why my signature is what it is!!!

depending on your ambient startup temps 20w50 might be a choice. in which case the valvoline VR1 is a top pick of mine and has been for 6+ years now.


VR1 in a wet clutch environment?


@alarmguy what's your favorite pick in the Boulevard C50?



According to this recent (2015) VOA : https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3721431/VOA_Motul_7100_4T_10W40
Motul has 9ppm of Silicon


Well, its been 4.5 years since the last post, this is the longest come back for a thread I have seen. Glad to see you are doing well, I have owned two other bikes since that C50.
The next bike was a vstar 1300 tourer.
For both bikes, I pretty much favored the Valvoline 20/50 spring, summer, fall and an HEDO (Mobile, Delo or Rotella, if I remember correctly I liked the Mobile HEDO the most) 15/40 late fall through early spring.
All Conventional oils.

The bike I am on now, was purchased in 2014 and purchased new, 2014 Harley Road King.
I have been using one oil exclusively. A Semi Syn 15w50 HEDO. I Posted many UOAs on it and a VOA right here in Bob Is the Oil guy..

The name is Mystik 15w50 Semi Syn Heavy Duty Engine oil. Its a "value brand" made by Citgo Petroleum. I doubt its marketed over seas but I have no idea.
Pretty much, American motorcycle brands always push their own oil but if you read between the lines, they allow other oils to be used if you cant buy their oil.
I use the Mystik because it is a Diesel or Gas engine oil. The cool thing is I REALLY like this oil and it cost me around the same $4 or so per quart delivered to my door.
When I buy oil its not really the cost, its using the proper oil and fluids recommended by the manufacturer. I do not buy into marketing claims of some oils trying to sell me something 3 times the cost. Th eoil I buy either meets a standard or not. I buy the one called for.
In this case, a CH4+ or later API grade which the Mystik claims a CJ4 rating.


Last edited by alarmguy; 02/20/17 07:20 AM.

14 Road King (current)
08 VStar 1300 Tourer
07 Suzuki C50
Re: '03 Kawi Meantreak 1500 - Motul 7100 10W40 - 2K mi [Re: va3ux] #4755675
05/13/18 08:45 AM
05/13/18 08:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,972
Michigan
ZZman Offline
ZZman  Offline
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,972
Michigan
Fuel was high in the Motul sample. Low in the Rotella. Wonder why?


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2008 Sebring Hardtop convertible. Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle oil
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT. Amsoil Metric 10w-40

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