AC not working

[wallyuwl]

OK... so I got it checked out today. It is the compressor and they are pretty sure it is the clutch only on it that is bad. To replace the compressor, expansion valve (need to rip out the whole dash), and dryer (integrated into condensor, so need to replace that), it is $1500. They THINK they will be OK without doing the dryer or expansion valve if they do it on a non-humid day. Labor for just the compressor is $220, and I can get one for $150 remanufactured off ebay.

The wife wants to look at new (used) cars instead. Our vehicle also needs tires, so at minimum we are looking at $1000 into the vehicle (more if just the compressor doesn't fix the AC, and AC is a necessity in Kentucky). If we go this route I was thinking about a Dodge Caliber (we need a wagonish type vehicle because of the dogs). Looks like I can get $4500 for ours probably, and there is a 2008 Caliber (96k miles though) for $8400 available we could look at.

Any suggestions?

 

[exranger06]

Replacing the expansion valve is completely unnecessary. Normally, I would replace the drier, but since it's integrated into the condenser, I'd be tempted to skip that as well. As long as the compressor didn't chew itself up inside and spew metal shavings throughout the system, you should be OK just replacing the compressor.

 

[yonyon]

If only the clutch is bad there's no need to replace the expansion valve or the dryer excepting that it may be required as a condition of warranty on a reman compressor. Most will require this. To satisfy this warranty requirement, buy it all and photocopy your receipts, then return everything other than the compressor.

Typically a new compressor won't have such warranty requirements, but so long as the clutch is known to be the only problem you can get around it the same way.

If you have any doubts about what really failed, there's always the inline filter.

 

[mechanicx]

If it's certain that the clutch is getting power and is bad, I'd just get another compressor and install it. Many times I have gotten a junkyard compressor for $30-50 or so, put it on and didn't always change the drier or expansion valve, pulled vacuum and recharged and the A/C was good to go. It would be extreme to replace the whole car over an A/C compressor imo.

I'm not saying you should get a used compressor, especially not if you aren't going to do the install and recharge yourself. Shop around and get a decent new or reman, and install it yourself or you should beable to have it installed and recharged for ~$200 or so.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Many times I have gotten a junkyard compressor for $30-50 or so, put it on and didn't always change the drier or expansion valve, pulled vacuum and recharged and the A/C was good to go. It would be extreme to replace the whole car over an A/C compressor imo.



One thing the guy at the repair shop said is that used compressors are basically worthless unless they sealed them when they took them off the vehicle. He said that if they aren't sealed the internal parts can rust and they are basically worthless. I looked on ebay and am looking at about $100 with shipping for a used one, or about $160 for a reman one. What would you go with, assuming we get it fixed?

Here is the reman compressor: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-A-C-Compressor-Pontiac-Vibe-2003-2008-1-8L-V4-Gas-Highest-Quality-/160801749228?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D816175578657765581%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26

 

[mechanicx]

Well if the compressor is taken off and left outside for awhile and in the rain it is probably worthless. Ideally you would take one off a low milage car that still installed and see for yourself that it is sealed. But they do not really have to be sealed once removed. New compressors aren't exactly sealed either. You just drain and replace the oil and pull a vacuum and usually it's fine. I don't want to tell you to get a used compressor if you are paying for installation though.

I can't vouch for that Ebay compressor, maybe someone else can, but I wouldn't trust it to be good quality.

If it truly is just the clutch. I think you should get a new clutch and install it or have a shop that does that at a reasonable price install it. That way you keep your OE compressor. The OE clutch is about $67 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-4851-Conditioning-Compressor-Clutch/dp/B000C9DCHW. Directions on installing it http://forums.genvibe.com/files/imported/399448=12962-x040001.pdf

Or you can get the complete new OE compressor for $245 http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-15-20754-Air-Conditioner-Compressor/dp/B000C9D7WW. t's a little more than the Ebay one but most likely far better. Or you might be able to get a new OE Denso for the Toyota Matrix and it is the same for less $206 http://www.amazon.com/Denso-471-1407-New...ywords=471-1407 or maybe the Denso clutch. But verify part number and cross-fit.

I would go one of those routes if you're sure the clutch is bad.

 

[mechanicx]

I don't think the Matrix compressor directly crosses over to the Vibe. But for the price that Amazon has the new Vibe OE compressor and clutch it is hard to beat.

 

[mechtech2]

Without being engaged, you are probably just turning the pulley with no resistance. the electromagnetic clutch has to be engaged to actually turn the compressor innards.
And it is not tough, but you will feel it

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
I can get one for $150 remanufactured off ebay.

The wife wants to look at new (used) cars instead. Our vehicle also needs tires, so at minimum we are looking at $1000 into the vehicle (more if just the compressor doesn't fix the AC, and AC is a necessity in Kentucky). If we go this route I was thinking about a Dodge Caliber (we need a wagonish type vehicle because of the dogs). Looks like I can get $4500 for ours probably, and there is a 2008 Caliber (96k miles though) for $8400 available we could look at.

Any suggestions?

I suggest the wife's idea of a new car might not be a bad idea, rather than dumping good money into a Pontiac Vibe

However, used car prices are sky high these days so if you go that route brand new or almost new may be the better buy, not a high mileage Dodge Caliper.

Furthermore, I wouldn't touch a used or reman compressor.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: mahansm
Sudden freon loss is very unusual


Not when a rock hits the A/C coil that's in front of your radiator.

 

[mikered30]

Originally Posted By: wallyuwl
I replaced the relay and that didn't fix it. The compressor clutch still doesn't engage.

There is only one fuse listed for the AC in the vehicle's manual, and it also controls the power windows and locks (it is in the fuse box inside the vehicle, vs. in the engine compartment). Those work still, so that fuse is good.

However, I'm not sure if there is another fuse that is also responsible for the AC in any way?


Which relay did you change under the hood? MG/CLT relay or another one? It is fairly common for that relay to fail. The horn or fog light relay works to diagnose this issue. Any staining on your condenser?

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: mikered30
Which relay did you change under the hood? MG/CLT relay or another one? It is fairly common for that relay to fail. The horn or fog light relay works to diagnose this issue. Any staining on your condenser?


Yup, I changed the MG/CLT relay. Had to go on GenVibe to find out what one was for the AC because it doesn't say in the manual what that one is for. I now know the compressor is bad. Looking at new (used) vehicles.

 

[wtd]

Did you try tapping on the clutch when the car was running and the AC on to see if maybe your clutch gap is too wide for it to engage? I would try that first. If only the clutch is bad, it can usually be replaced without discharging the system.

Wayne

 

[Lyman]

Originally Posted By: wtd
Did you try tapping on the clutch when the car was running and the AC on to see if maybe your clutch gap is too wide for it to engage? I would try that first. If only the clutch is bad, it can usually be replaced without discharging the system.

Wayne
I was thinking the same thing. Why not just replace the clutch?