Do you think motor oil counterfeiting is going on?

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Garak
A retailer is lucky to make $12 off of a case of 12 quarts/litres of oil. Walmart uses oil as a loss leader. It's not like a Rolex watch's markup.
...............


Wal-Mart does not do "loss leaders". It either makes money or it is gone. Everything in Wal-Mart has to earn it's keep on the shelf

 

[accent2012]

used oil sales are rampant in many parts of the world.

But it's still easy to get stuff through customs, etc. that I wouldn't doubt if people are getting counterfeit lubricants. Especially for boutique oils like Red Line, RP and Amsoil.

If you can sell $15/quart oil with materials that cost no more than a $1 (or less) that is pure profit.

What would be really bad is having bad oil enter the general market along with the good stuff - you won't know if what you have bought from walmart or advance autoparts is genuine or not. That's scary.

 

[Mystic]

The one thing I know is what happened to me. I had a Toyota Tercel car at the time and I took it to a Grease Money to get the oil changed. I brought my own Mobil 1 oil and a oil filter. I paid them to change the oil.

There was a window where I could observe what was happening in the service bay. When I saw what was happening I walked into the service bay even though customers were not supposed to go in there.

My Mobil 1 oil was still in the plastic bag laying on the floor some distance away from my car. They were almost ready to pour a conventional 10W40 motor oil into my car. I can't remember what brand it was (I think Mystik) but it was a conventional oil, not the synthetic oil I had brought with me, and not even the correct viscosity for my car.

I stood there and watched while they put that oil away and poured my Mobil 1 oil in instead.

I have never trusted people at quick lubrication places since that time. I think it is especially a bad idea to bring your own synthetic oil which might get switched with a conventional oil while they keep the synthetic oil for themselves. Or if you pay for synthetic oil maybe you will get conventional oil. It is really best to do your own oil changes.

I never trusted the bulk oil at new car dealerships either. I found out one time that they were using 10W30 oil even though it was supposed to be 5W30.

There are fewer and fewer honest people in this world all the time.

 

[Mystic]

By the way, I heard of testing of motor oil that was taking place a long time back. They discovered that a lot of brand name motor oil did not meet the requirements they were supposed to meet.

 

[kmrcstintn]

Quote:
I never trusted the bulk oil at new car dealerships either. I found out one time that they were using 10W30 oil even though it was supposed to be 5W30.


had this happen with a Polaris atv I bought in 2010; I purchased some bottled Polaris oil for 'top off' and was told it was 2w-50 grade; when I took it in for the oil change I asked that the bulk stuff in the back was the same and I got a 'YES' but when I asked again when I picked it up the service mamager said the bulk stuff was 0w-40 and asked him why I was told it was the same stuff as in the bottle which I was told was 2w-50...not a really concise answer and the parts department wouldn't refund my money on the bottled stuff...A-HOLES!!!

 

[Mystic]

When you consider that even name brand oil apparently was not meeting specs it really makes since to do your own oil changes with a synthetic oil like Mobil 1 if you own a new car or truck or SUV.

No telling what you are getting from a bulk oil tank or at a quick lube place. nd if you bring your own synthetic oil it might get switched.

 

[salv]

bulk oil tanks have to be labeled with what is in them. they are reputable oils that meet proper standards. yes they are often value leader oils.
i don't believe that there is much counterfeiting going on, but do believe that there are not as many oils on the market as most people believe. just the same oil poured into several different bottles. our oil supplier told us that the same truck fills their qs ud and pp tanks. these supplies are audited by sopus reps.
bottom line is that major brands contract to regional blenders to install an additive package in a base oil that the individual blending facility contracts with. if the resulting blend meets the brand's standards, it can sport their label.

 

[Mystic]

I have heard that also. If so, there may be little or no difference between most brands of oil.

However, Ashland is supposed to do its own blending (for Valvoline motor oil and probably NAPA).

And maybe if you buy a motor oil like Mobil 1 you get better blending.

It would be interesting to find out.

 

[salv]

the actual ashland facility is closed. there are other regional facilities that blend for ashland (a marathon owned company). they use a specific lubrizol additive package, blended with a base oil of the specified group. you can see the same additive package pop up in some warren distribution products, including house brands. warren does a lot of business with lubrizol.

 

[Mystic]

So maybe there is very little difference between brands if they are using the same oil and same additive package?

 

[salv]

mobil does not have a blending facility either. they contract to have their infinium additive package blended with a suitable base oil, or oils. remember that most oil companies outsourced for group III oils for a long time. none are produced in the US. SK and S-oil are some of the largest group III providers. both are asian made. sopus makes theirs in the middle east.

 

[salv]

oils are more alike than different. ignore that data sheets, msds', and b.s. voa's.
in fact, i am more convinced that the oil analysis numbers are skewed. if oil blends are supposed to be proprietary, then how is it that any company could legally analyze an disclose it's formula?

 

[Mystic]

I have to assume that synthetic motor oil would require a somewhat different additive package than concentional motor oil. Of course, they could put the same additive package in various brands of synthetic motor oil.

 

[salv]

the additive package is blended with a carrier oil before being blended with the base oil(s). the base oil does not dictate the additive package.
the "manufacturer" dictates the additive package based on their testing/marketing.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

This topic has taken a right turn, but I like where it's going. I've always thought that there were WAY more brands than blenders, and that API/Ilsac standards were so specific, that most oils that meet them are not much different from one another.

I can hardly think of all the oils out there that are on spec and of quality that are made by

WPP, Warren Unilube, Amalie or Smitty's... those guys make sooooo many brands it's wild. WPP especially.

The one thing I did notice is all the oils that PQI has failed.. by anyone.. didn't have the current API Donut with certification. Something tells me that's about ALL you have to look for if you have a car calling for API/Ilsac grades.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: Garak
It's not like a Rolex watch's markup.


It takes about a year and a half to build a Rolex watch by hand.

Normal mark up at the jewelry store is about 40%.

Rolex really controls the pricing/discounting going on with their dealers.

But you can buy Rolexes all day in New York City for $50 each.

 

[dave1251]

I am sorry, but I do not think of Amalie as quality. From what I have seen from Amalie, their current owners want API spec oils, but at the lowest price point possible. There is such a thing as surpassing API specs and another to pass by the skin of your teeth. I would use their stuff. It is fine but for the price of other oils, I definitely feel there is better values.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/wolfshead2011.htm

 

[salv]

we're not talking rolex. we're talking the off the shelf timex that takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'.
boutique oils are for chumps when it comes to daily drivers.
most important aspect of an engine oil is its film strength. primary protection (function of the base oil). additive package aids in protection, but is not the sole determinate of a quality oil.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Amalie's stuff isn't bad. That's the old style WH bottle... so I'd guess it'd been on the shelf for a few years before it got picked by PQI. I'd like to see PQI pull a few of Amalie's top shelf offerings instead.

The current bottle looks like this.... in case you care.

The WH 5w-20 from the current offering looks up to snuff just fine. Although PQI didn't like the way the label read.
Wolf'sHead 5w-20 2012

 

[salv]

who blends for amelie, american refining? same as brad penn, gulf, citgo.