2009 Sienna ("lifetime" ATF) - flush vs. drain

[Jon]

I have a (new to me, but used) 2009 Sienna LE (the 2wd version). According to Toyota, the WS fluid is a lifetime fill. I'd like to know if the fluid is especially weak, the transmissions require more frequent fluid changes, etc.... When I pull the dipstick and check it, it seems fine and smells fine, it's not dark or brown or stinky. I have 55,000 miles on it (give or take). 50/50 highway/city, and we live in Wisconsin (so we go from -20F to 110F in any given year).

If you would change it, how? Drop the pan (and change the filter), or do a line flush. Would you use Amsoil? BG? Toyota? I generally like Amsoil stuff, I've never used BG. There is a shop near here with a fancy BG machine but they'll use whatever fluid is appropriate (and actually seem really clued in).

I want/need this thing to *last*.

 

[handyman]

I have a 2006 Sienna. The pan is located under a cross piece. It is a major pain to drop. I can’t get to some bolts with my tools. I just use an oil extractor to pump out four quarts and do a partial replacement with Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) every now and then.
There is no such thing as a lifetime fill! When your transmission goes then it’s the end of its life. Change the fluid! Your transmission will thank you.

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

Look underneath and see if it has a drain plug. If it does, there's no reason not to do at least a couple drain and fills.

 

[mongo161]

Most likely the Toyota Sienna does not have a filter for the transmission.

I totally agree with Handyman.....Lifetime Fluids....IMO....are just marketing hype.

If you have the transmission drain plug on the pan....give it a few drains every now and then. If it does not have a drain plug...the extractor method is the way to go.

Don't forget to add some Lubegard Red to the new/replaced as well as the existing fluid in your transmission.M

All you need is 1 ounce for every quart of transmission fluid. Your transmission will also thank you for your extra care.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

my (opinion) there is no such thing as a liftime fluid, they all need changed.. If it were mine i would follow a standard schedule of 30-50 thousand miles.. line flushes replace the most/all fluid while pan drops normally only get around 1/3 out.. I would start with a line flush NOW, and when you hit the 100,000 do a pan drop.. my two pennies.

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Why not pull a sample of the ATF fluid and get a UOA?

 

[btanchors]

Here is a data point:

I have a 2006 Tundra V8 4WD that came with the WS fluid. Only this vehicle has no dipstick. It does, however, have a drain plug.

I have performed several UOAs on the transmission of this vehicle. You can see them here.

At about 63,000 miles, I drained the factory fluid, and thoroughly flushed it with Amsoil ATL fluid. I performed a UOA at about 95K miles, and then ran it until 98K miles. Although the UOA results at 95K came out well, I decided to flush the transmission again at 98K miles because I wanted to sell the truck to my son, and I wanted it to be current on all maintenance.

So, at 98K miles, prior to performing the flush, I drained the fluid and removed the transmission pan. Fortunately, even on the 4WD Tundra, it is easy to remove the pan.

I was shocked at how clean the pan was. There was absolutely NO sediment, or sludge of any kind. The pan was even shiney, like it was new. There was a slight amount of sludgy metal particles on the 4 magnets, almost a negligible amount. I went ahead and cleaned the magnets, washed out the pan, reinstalled it, then performed the flush.

At 98K miles the transmission shifts smoothly and runs like new. Even though I did not change the fluid at all until 63K miles, the pan was amazingly clean.

The WS Fluid seems to be pretty good, but as you could see in the UOAs, had begun to shear.

Incidentally, I really like the Amsoil fluid. I just submitted a VOA to this board as well, which you can see here.

Note the additive package in the Amsoil ATL seems to be significantly more stout than in the WS UOAs.

Hope this info helps...

 

[Jon]

If I use Amsoil, how important (if at all) is the Lubegard Red?

 

[tommygunn]

It isn't. Why would you play chemist and start mixing stuff into your ATF in the first place?

Use a decent ATF and be done with it.

 

[meep]

I have a used 2006 tundra with 107k on it. the dealer put universal ATF (synthetic) from BG in it before I bought it. it was spec'ed to have the WS fluid which is a lower viscosity fluid than most. Amsoil now actually carries a new fluid for this and for Dex VI applications. BG does not. The shift quality is far more dialed-in with the amsoil than BG, so I would be very careful with fluid choice--- a T-IV substitute is not good enough... it needs to be for WS applications.

You'll can either start doing a few drain/refills every other OC or just have it flushed. If it were me, I'd start looking into it sometime after 60k. My old-school mentality shudders at 100k on a fluid.

good luck!
m

 

[Slick17601]

It will have a drain plug. I have a 2008 Sienna and did a drain and fill at 25,000 with Toyota WS and added 1 bottle of Lubegard red. Plan to continue more of the same every 25,000 to 30,000 miles.

 

[Bgallagher]

I'd drain and fill with Toyota WS. I would use the OEM fluid and do a drain and fill every 30k. Should keep your transmission happy

 

[fisher83]

Sure there is! The transmission lasts the lifetime of the fluid!

 

[Samilcar]

For our 2008 Sienna, I purchased a new transmission filter with the intention of replacing the original, but as stated earlier, access to one side of the transmission pan is blocked by a suspension crossmember. I've just been doing drain and fills of the fluid instead. Four quarts of fluid should drain out of the pan plug, new fluid is put in through the dipstick tube.

Analysis of original fluid at 30,000 miles:


Code:
Fluid FactoryFill Universal Avg

MILES IN USE 29451 29000

MILES ON VAN 29451





ALUMINUM 57 18

CHROMIUM 1 0

IRON 52 46

COPPER 22 58

LEAD 3 14

TIN 0 2

MOLYBDENUM 2 1

NICKEL 8 1

MANGANESE 3 1

SILVER 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0

POTASSIUM 4 2

BORON 40 69

SILICON 24 20

SODIUM 16 5

CALCIUM 116 152

MAGNESIUM 0 16

PHOSPHORUS 258 313

ZINC 11 56

BARIUM 2 3



SUS Visc@210°F 43.1 43-51

cSt Visc@100°C 5.13 5.1-7.9

Flashpoint °F 355 >320

Insolubles % 0 pre>

 

[Jon]

Wow, a lot of responses.

I've boiled it down to "use Toyota WS" and "use Amsoil".
Why should I use one over the other?
I plan on doing a drainplug drain-and-refill (4 quarts? Almost exactly?) every oil change (5K miles) for, say, 3 oil changes? 4? And then once a year or every other year thereafter.

 

[btanchors]

Jon,

I cannot provide any verified facts, only my opinions.

First, you can't harm your vehicle by using OEM (Toyota WS) ATF. If you plan to change (or partially change) your ATF frequently (once a year or more) I would probably stick with the Toyota OEM.

Second, in my opinion, based on what I have seen through UOAs and VOAs, I believe the Amsoil is a full-synthetic fluid with a more robust additive package than the OEM Toyota WS. As evidence - the starting TAN is higher, and the parts per million for Boron, Phosphorus, and Calcium are considerably higher for the Amsoil. I believe, therefore, that Amsoil is probably more robust of a fluid than OEM Toyota WS.

There is no question about the fact that the VOA Analysis says the Amsoil has more additives than the Toyota WS. I can't prove that it automatically follows that the Amsoil is better. In my case, I am trying to minimize the maintenance I have to do on my vehicles. I believe the Amsoil fluid gets me closer to that than the OEM Toyota Fluid does. It has performed well in my 2006 Tundra for the past 35K miles. I plan to switch my new (2011) Tundra over to it before too long.

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: Jon
4 quarts? Almost exactly?


With my van, yes. 4 quarts right on the nose as measured by a pyrex measuring container.

 

[Ram01]

Trust toyota the fluid. Is good for life

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Ram01
Trust toyota the fluid. Is good for life



I trust Toyota....But not that much! No fluid is lifetime I dont care what anyone say`s.