What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

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Thanks for the great info, friends. To answer a few questions: The engine is a 250hp 3.5 Liter SOHC 24-Valve i-VTEC V6 with Variable Cylinder Managemeny(VCM). All of the maintenance was performed by the Honda dealer during the warranty period. The dealer ran conventional Mobil Super and then Jiffy Lube used conventional Pennzoil twice and conventional Pennzoil High-Milage oil for the last two changes. The valve train tick went away with the first High-Mileage change for about a week.

Most of the 30K miles per year were highway miles, run at about 75MPH. Only about 200 miles towing, nothing severe at all, no off-road. Some short trips but very few compared to highway miles. But I did let my wife drive it on occasion!

I did not get the Service Writer's statement in writing, but he repeats it every time I ask if I shouldn't change the oil at 5,000 miles like I used to do: "I have plenty of Hondas of all types that routinely go 9K or 10K between service and they all run fine"

I did get a second and third opinion. One mechanic said "fxxk the maintenance minder and always change your oil at 5,000 miles, your dealer has his head up his tail pipe". The other mechanic said the dealer should have given you the option to run synthetic oil the first time, and every time you voiced your concerns.

I did open up a case with Honda America today and dropped off copies of all my oil changes at the dealer for the regional Honda rep to look at next week. It is interesting that the Honda Service Writer went from ignoring to escalating once I showed up with my complete service records as well as a spreadsheet recapping the exact oil change history.

I check the oil level regularly and it has only been a half quart low once, at the last oil change. The dealer told me about the sludge but I have not seen it with my own two eyes. There is no white goo on the inside of the oil cap.

The vehicle still runs, but the ticking noise is worse since they looked at it. I continue to drive it with a very lite foot.
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Conventional oil doesn't go 9,000 miles. Sorry.

Car ownership requires some basic knowledge - like tire pressure, what oil to use, ect. You should have checked the owners' manual for the correct oil if you were not sure. Otherwise, you should have changed at a reasonable interval.



Since when and what application?
 
I have a 2006 Honda Odyssey with a 3.5 iVTEC. I mostly following the OLM or change sooner (with various name brand synthetics.) I have significant varnish with 80,000 miles on the vehicle. The Mini-van sees lots of short trips, and many long trips, but oil changes have been around 4000-6000 miles. Engine is making a noise, possibly from valve train. I hope I don't have the start of camshaft problems like the 09 Pilot.

I am currenly running Redline 5w-20 to hopefully clean up some of the varnish and hopefully quiet it down some.

Fingers crossed, cause I have a feeling that Honda engines parts are expensive...
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251

This is another example that the blame is going to on the oil not the poor design of the engine.


How is it a poor engine design?? The guy didn't change his oil.
 
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Did the second and third mechanic actually diagnose the engine, or did you just ask their opinion on your situation?
 
Originally Posted By: zfasts03
I have a 2006 Honda Odyssey with a 3.5 iVTEC. I mostly following the OLM or change sooner (with various name brand synthetics.) I have significant varnish with 80,000 miles on the vehicle.


How do you know that you have significant varnish? Is it evident though the oil fill hole?
 
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Conventional oil doesn't go 9,000 miles. Sorry.

Car ownership requires some basic knowledge - like tire pressure, what oil to use, ect. You should have checked the owners' manual for the correct oil if you were not sure. Otherwise, you should have changed at a reasonable interval.



I did check the owner's manual. I tells owners to follow the mileage minder. I always used the correct oil which is 5W-20. The manual says I can use a synthetic but the dealer did not give me that option. I expressed my concerns about the excessively long OCIs but he insisted that was normal.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
Did the second and third mechanic actually diagnose the engine, or did you just ask their opinion on your situation?


I told the other two mechanics what I posted here and asked for their professional opinion. The diagnosis from the Honda dealer cost me $200 so I though I would wait to see what the regional Honda rep had to say before paying someone else to tear into it again.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gabe
Originally Posted By: dave1251

This is another example that the blame is going to on the oil not the poor design of the engine.


How is it a poor engine design?? The guy didn't change his oil.


When was the last time you read a owners manual? 9K OCI's on a Honda is pretty common.
 
He (`09 Pilot) did change his oil according to recommendation of the OLM and service manual.

With my `06 Odyssey with the 3.5 with ACM, I also changed the oil using the OLM, but went above and beyond used synthetics and high quality filters and I have significant varnish and a valve train??? noise.

I agree the design of the engine or calibration of the OLM system is not in line with the harsh demands on the engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
...and then Jiffy Lube used conventional Pennzoil twice and conventional Pennzoil High-Milage oil for the last two changes.


Hmmm, Is there any way you can reset the OLM without doing the OC? IDK I own a Ford, no High tech stuff here LOL.

If there is, maybe your jiffy lube didnt do it just reset it?
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: Gabe
Conventional oil doesn't go 9,000 miles. Sorry.

Car ownership requires some basic knowledge - like tire pressure, what oil to use, ect. You should have checked the owners' manual for the correct oil if you were not sure. Otherwise, you should have changed at a reasonable interval.



Since when and what application?


Are you asking since when and what application does car ownership require basic knowledge?? Or are you asking when a conventional oil is unable to go 9K miles without causing sludge??
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Sorry you have a dead engine. Should of researched more before jumping into 9-10K OCI's. Engine is more at fault than oil.


Dave you are absolutely right and that's good advice. But I relied on my dealer's service writer instead. I won't make that mistake again.
 
In hind sight I should have run Amsoil 0w-20 ASL in this vehicle also.
Or changed it at about 30-40% remaining with OLM, with off the shelf synthetics.

I have to admit lots of short trips in cold weather are the killer of engines.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
nice first post welcome to bitog and i hope you arent a trolling
formerly banned member here.


Thank you. Actually this is my first post of any kind on the Internet.
 
In this case, I'd probably try running some seafoam in the oil, let the engine run for 20 minutes, change oil with cheap 5-20, run for a couple thousand, repeat a few times and see what happens. Despite the sludge and noise it may pull through and run for awhile yet.

I would have no trouble believing sludge build up using that oil with that kind of change interval. I've worked and changed oil on several of those engines. The Pilots and Odyssey both seem to be very harsh on their oil even when used lightly with all high way. I remember one family bought a 2011 Odyssey, the ones that call for 0-20. They went by the oil change meter for the first couple changes and I called them out to look under the cap. There was already a significant amount of gunk, as well as a terrible burnt oil smell when draining. They kept an eye on their oil and never let it run low, and I believe that. They had another Odyssey with well over 200,000 on it that ran like it was new. There were no UOA ran, but it doesn't take too much to figure out that pitch black oil, a burnt oil smell that filled the shop, and deposits forming after only 20 or 30k miles was way too long on the oil. The meter had them going 10,000 miles. They switched to 5k mile changes and no further deposits formed and the drained oil no longer filled the shop with smell. For what it's worth, this was on Mobil 1 0-20 oil with I believe purolator classic filters.

I'd say there's blame to share here...the service rep should not have been saying just go by the meter, the tech should have noticed something that bad, and I'm guessing anyone near by when that oil was changed probably would have wondered too.
 
What does the oil dipstick look like? The varnish and build up on the dipstick can be a indication of how dirty the engine is.


As long as there is no issue with low oil pressure which there doesn't seem to be, I would get the valves adjusted and start getting the oil changed every 3000 miles or less to try to clean the engine out.
 
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