Why NOT to buy a Jetta TDI ?

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: Clayslayer
I have an '02 Jetta ....

Change the timing belt every 80K miles....

I have 310,000 miles and counting.......

The 'big thing' is the timing belt that has to be replaced every 80K miles......

Runs me around $600 every 5 years to do that......


Hmmm... timing belt every 80K... done every 5 years...
That makes 2 timing belts in the life of the car (Car is 10 years old, timing belt changed every five years). You mean you let your 80K timing belts go to 155K?

 

[Spazdog]

A friend has a New Beetle TDi.

I have to admit, I was suprised at how it drove. Reminded me of an '80s Audi 4000. You know, if the Audi 4000 had torque and made you sit 5 feet away from the windshield. Anyway, pretty darn good on the freeway. Cruised real nice at speeds that older VW diesels were not capable of.

If you have ever driven an early 50hp VW diesel, the TDis are a completely different driving experience.

BUT,

her New Beetle is newer than my cars and has already suffered the dreaded and expensive HPFP failure

The block, head, pistons, crank...etc... seem to be pretty well built. It's all the delivery and management stuff that seems to be weak and unreliable

I would just get a Cruze Eco or wait to see if the US market Dodge Dart 1.4 Turbo MultiAir gets similar mileage to the Cruze. The Cruze Eco is about $5000 less. Put the money you save towards buying gas to offset the small amount of fuel economy you lose in town.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog


I would just get a Cruze Eco or wait to see if the US market Dodge Dart 1.4 Turbo MultiAir gets similar mileage to the Cruze. The Cruze Eco is about $5000 less. Put the money you save towards buying gas to offset the small amount of fuel economy you lose in town.


As long as they don't mind rowing their own to get the 28 city/42 highway mpg manual transmission Cruze Eco (what I have) that really will get/exceed its rated fuel economy. I've averaged 43.5 mpg since new last August with mine.

I wanted a Jetta TDI, but after seeing the HPFP failures go unresolved by VWoA, I decided against it.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
her New Beetle is newer than my cars and has already suffered the dreaded and expensive HPFP failure


The New Beetle TDI has never been available with the CR TDI engine, hence no HPFP. Your cars are all 2005s, which would have to make hers a 2006 - the last year of the NB TDI. Those cars are equipped with the Pumpe Düse engine... the know weak points are the camshaft-driven injectors and dual mass flywheel (both for the manual transmission and DSG 'automatic').

 

[Spazdog]

I didn't do the repairs on her car or view the invoice.

All I know is that it left her garage on the hook and then she said the repair bill was nearly $2000.

 

[SLCraig]

I want to love them same as you, but owning one of those outside of warranty is terrifying. I have had a few family members who have had Jetta TDI's and they will never go near the brand again. I have one other family member who has always had Passat turbos and he has always absolutely loved them.

Not sure what to think to be honest.

 

[supton]

Love my TDi. That said, it's a premium car for sure, with premium pricing on maintance. Yet it's only been front wheel bearings, strut/shocks, 1.5 sets of brakes (warped the replacement rotors), one clutch, one glowplug harness, one set of glowplugs, a bit of EGR work (not plugged up) and two intake flaps in 253kmiles. While returning 46mpg in normal driving. is getting some rust issues which I hope to resolve at the dealer (I can hope).

IMO the fuel savings pays for the repairs, leaving it a wash. For me, the driving experience still wins. Loads of torque, long cruising range. But I wouldn't buy another new, I'd probably go with a dead feeling (gas) econobox. The repairs do get old, but nothing does well after 200k. And the dealers are atrocious.

I'm not sure if the timing chains will necessarily last "the life of the car", if the "life" is expected to be 300k. Maybe it's the fanboi's who defend the timing belts getting to me: but I'm not sold (yet) on expecting a chain to last past 150kmiles. It might--it might not. Timing belt gets pulled every 80k on mine, and the water pump gets replaced at the same time.

 

[scurvy]

One thing is for sure - there's no better way to ruin VW ownership experience quicker than taking it to the stealership for servicing.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Clayslayer
I don't understand some of the comments on this thread. I have an '02 Jetta with an ALH TDI (rotary pump, 90hp).


i havent dug through this thread, i agree with you the ALH is a good drivetrain in MANUAL form, the automatic though has a terrible reputation. i've read countless reports also about the current TDI being terrible as well. It is sad that VW couldnt replicate the ALH's success, but thats the way it is sometimes.

 

[oilmaven]

I've driven the VW diesels (older models...2002 model year if I remember correctly...was considering one but was overwhelmed by the pricing) and they drive great (I'm sure the new models are even better). I owned 2 Rabbits...a 1977 and a 1981...both bought new. The '77 was reliable except for an idling issue due to its fuel injection (mechanical I believe) and a fuel pump failure around 60,000 miles. The '81 was nicer...quieter and rode better but had a "wide ratio" 4 speed with a tall overdrive in 4th (remember when they did that in lieu of just putting in an extra 5th gear?). I've not owned a VW product since. The cars are magic to drive but their issues are legendary. Personally I'd pop for a boring-but-reliable Prius if fuel economy was the primary goal.

 

[Cujet]

If you are going to purchase a new TDI, understand clearly that the older ones have nothing in common with the newer.

The older ones were simple, reliable, efficient and enjoyable to drive. The current crop of TDI's are sophisticated, complex, multi valve, highly emission controlled engines. The parts for the newer TDI's are E-expensive. And, the emission warranty (at least on mine) was 2 years or 24,000 miles. Not exactly good.

Simple things like oxygen sensors cost $700 (wideband O2 sensors) .

Don't misunderstand me. I love the cars. I simply cannot afford to own an economy car that costs more to own than a "real" luxury car.

By Memory:

Transmission mechatronic "valve body" at 3 weeks old. (left wife stranded 200 miles from home) warranty
Steering problems, refused by warranty. Fixed by local VW expert.
Brake calipers seized up. (poor E-cable design) fixed by me
EGR cooler leaked exhaust into cabin and made horrible hissing noise. $1500
DSG transmission flywheel exploded, destroyed transmission (a common problem) $5000
Wideband O2 sensor, $700
Electric throttle (anti shudder valve) plastic gears failed. $500
In tank fuel pump (lift pump) failed 3 times. Leaving me stranded. $400 each time
Electrical issues related to poor fuse box connectivity. VW put only one tab touching each fuse, and the other side was plastic. When it gets warm, the plastic distorts and the fuse loses the connection. Stranded again. Not repairable, as the fuse box is impossible to access or repair, short of major surgery.

There is much more. I sold the car at 68,000 miles. NEVER AGAIN

 

[adamrc]

Love my 2001 VW Golf TDI. The ALH is a fantastic engine. I have a little over 217,000 miles on it now. I change the timing belt every 100K miles with a full kit done by a TDI guru. I have bigger injector nozzles - PowerPlus 357s and RocketChip stage 3 tuning. It has lots of power. The low end torque is amazing. My biggest complaint is the automatic transmission. I've had to have a new torque converter installed and a new upgraded valve body as well. I've replaced the serpentine belt tensioner a couple of times.

My brother has a 2003 VW Jetta TDI with over 100+K miles
My father has a 2002 VW Jetta TDI with over 200K miles.

None of us have had any major issues. They are great cars but maintenance cannot be neglected. We all change our oil with either Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 with Mann filters every 10K miles.

On top of all that, we have been burning our own homemade biodiesel for the past 7 years with no issues.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Cujet

Electrical issues related to poor fuse box connectivity. VW put only one tab touching each fuse, and the other side was plastic. When it gets warm, the plastic distorts and the fuse loses the connection. Stranded again. Not repairable, as the fuse box is impossible to access or repair, short of major surgery.

I understand many engineers love to go plastic but holy poop. What were they thinking?

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
If you are going to purchase a new TDI, understand clearly that the older ones have nothing in common with the newer.

The older ones were simple, reliable, efficient and enjoyable to drive. The current crop of TDI's are sophisticated, complex, multi valve, highly emission controlled engines. The parts for the newer TDI's are E-expensive. And, the emission warranty (at least on mine) was 2 years or 24,000 miles. Not exactly good.


Bingo!

Why people bring these much simpler diesels to the table when the discussion is about the new diesels?

There is simply no comparison between old and new except for the fuel they use. The shear complexity in the exhaust system alone is just scary. On top of that the DPF is rated at 120k miles! That's not to mention the high pressure pump, the injectors and fuel delivery system.

I'd rather take my chances with a hybrid battery.

 

[dareo]

If you really want a TDI, forget spending 26k on a new one. Find an ALH powered 99.5-2003 in good shape and spend what you need to to refurbish it. If you can only find autos, 5 speed and 6 speed conversions can be done. ALH TDI is so good its worth any VW trouble. 100k timing belt is no problem, and its not the end of the world if you don't change it and it breaks. Just plan on a few 1000 instead of $325 parts. ALH can run forever if it was cared for.

If you want a brand new car i cannot recommend the current diesel offerings until I've seen them hit 300,000+ without any replacement fuel system parts like an ALH can do.

I have two ALH jettas, both purchased between $5-6k, and the MPG is unrivaled by anything else out there. With upgrade tune and injectors 50-55 mpg highways runs are routine. City driving like fuel was free still gets me 38-42 mpg. They are a pain to work on compared to Japanese stuff but i wouldn't sell them or trade them for anything. It helps to have a guru or learn to be one yourself and know where to get parts. www.boraparts.com is my go to place for almost anything it needs replaced. Combined mileage of the two cars is getting close to 600,000.

So spend a lot less, get an ALH, fix anything wrong with it, and enjoy the last of the great pre-emission diesels until they figure out clean diesel+cheap+reliable again.

You can put a whole lot of new parts on a ALH jetta and have a like new car and still be 1/3 the cost of a loaded new TDI.