Recent Topics
Beware Youtube
by SilverFusion2010. 12/10/18 06:35 AM
Where do you normally change your oil?
by ZZman. 12/10/18 04:54 AM
Lowe's - $25 off $25 - YMMV
by tony1679. 12/10/18 04:42 AM
Need advice on Filter choices
by GMguy84. 12/10/18 12:41 AM
Chevron Supreme synthetic oil? What happened?
by Onetor. 12/09/18 11:50 PM
235 50 15
by WiskyBadger. 12/09/18 11:21 PM
QUICKJACK 5000 ---COSTCO
by Deere John. 12/09/18 10:26 PM
Diesel Fuel Oil Dilution - 5w-30 Castrol Edge Pro. C1
by BladerunnerBoats. 12/09/18 10:24 PM
Home Remodeling Question
by FirstNissan. 12/09/18 10:22 PM
It Snowed Last Night.
by gfh77665. 12/09/18 10:13 PM
Are you Naughty or Nice?
by MolaKule. 12/09/18 09:49 PM
Made me Laugh
by mbacfp. 12/09/18 09:25 PM
Ford WSS-M2C195-A, Mercon LV, confusion!
by BadMonkey. 12/09/18 09:23 PM
Motorcraft filters, new boxes same problems?
by 2strokeNorthstar. 12/09/18 07:47 PM
Twisted Sister - Oh come all ye faithful
by StevieC. 12/09/18 07:20 PM
Wife and I don't agree about paint colors
by Chris142. 12/09/18 06:57 PM
What filter ? Mazda 6 2007, 2.3.
by Popsy. 12/09/18 06:38 PM
Ford spec WSS-M2C953-A1
by bfleeman. 12/09/18 06:18 PM
Tesla 3 - Jason from E.E. purchased one
by StevieC. 12/09/18 06:03 PM
Newest Members
paintballzero, A_User55555, BadMonkey, rbtharris, Horizons
66638 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
59 registered members (badtlc, Astro14, 2K2AcuraTL, BadMonkey, aquariuscsm, 2009Edge, 9 invisible), 1,239 guests, and 30 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,862
Posts4,923,205
Members66,638
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Another non-synthetic 0w-20 #2652771
06/13/12 01:23 AM
06/13/12 01:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,193
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,193
CA
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9040510&contentId=7061133

I was on the Castrol website earlier and noticed that GTX SynBlend is being offered in a 0w-20. The MSDS was issued on 4/10 so I am guessing that this is a new product.

Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks. So, buyers should not assume that all 0w-20s will always be full-synthetic.


2011 Toyota Prius - 178k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 133K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652778
06/13/12 02:21 AM
06/13/12 02:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 02:26 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 79,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 140,000 PP

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652785
06/13/12 02:45 AM
06/13/12 02:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,193
CA
The Critic Offline OP
The Critic  Offline OP
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,193
CA
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?

As of now, Honda/CP and Valvoline Durablend were the only ones with a non-syn 0w-20.

Now Castrol has entered the market in that area.


2011 Toyota Prius - 178k - Various 0W-20 (Brew)
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 133K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652816
06/13/12 05:02 AM
06/13/12 05:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Hokiefyd Offline
Hokiefyd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?


Castrol already offers a 0W-20 in their Edge line; I've seen it at Advance Auto. I didn't notice the price; it likely carries a huge premium there. If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Hokiefyd] #2652832
06/13/12 05:47 AM
06/13/12 05:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.

And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.

IMHO, 10,000 miles is pushing the envelope for any oil when designers HAVE NO CLUE how the vehicle is driven every day. Now, they are reducing the margin for shear and viscosity deterioration. Some one is going to take this too far.

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 05:54 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 79,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 140,000 PP

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652881
06/13/12 06:42 AM
06/13/12 06:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,917
NJ
buster Offline
buster  Offline
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 30,917
NJ
Quote:
Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks


I'm not so sure about this. You do need mostly syn base oils.

From Mobil.com FAQ:

10. Are all 0W-20 viscosity oils synthetics? Yes. The 0W-20 viscosity grade requires synthetic-base oils to meet low-temperature performance standards. >>back


Most if not all 0w20's are synthetic. I am not sure if I believe you can make a 0w20 blend of mostly GrpII+.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652894
06/13/12 07:02 AM
06/13/12 07:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Hokiefyd Offline
Hokiefyd  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.


Right now, the "cheapest 0W-20 available" is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20, if by cheapest you mean most inexpensive. Now, if by cheapest you mean the poorest quality, I revert back to my belief that the differences in "synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely in marketing, and anything meeting the 0W-20 specification is going to have very good performance properties.

And for another data point, Hondas are out there doing 10k mile OCIs on conventional 5W-20. I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652923
06/13/12 07:48 AM
06/13/12 07:48 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652935
06/13/12 08:08 AM
06/13/12 08:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,491
TX
DrDusty86 Offline
DrDusty86  Offline
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,491
TX
ARCO- RP AZO....

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653015
06/13/12 10:04 AM
06/13/12 10:04 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
I think that's a nyet on the RP for their street oils.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: ARCOgraphite] #2653037
06/13/12 10:42 AM
06/13/12 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,198
Indiana
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 10:45 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 79,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 140,000 PP

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653050
06/13/12 10:56 AM
06/13/12 10:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,360
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,360
Canada
Nice to see another option in the 0W-20 grade.

Castrol now has 3 0W-20's - they have Edge 0W-20, Edge w/SPT (black bottle) 0W-20, and Syntec Blend 0W-20.

However, I doubt we will ever see it up here, we still only have a tiny bit of Edge 0W-20 up here, no mainstream stores carry it.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 137k miles.
M1 EP 10W-30; OEM Kia filter.
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2653948
06/14/12 07:45 AM
06/14/12 07:45 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,283
N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?
Maybe a marginal cold crank improvement and hopefully a small VI improvement. Otherwise they meet the same spec.


2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#10 47272mi-QSUD10W30+5w20 Toughguard Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#2 ?? mi-SOA/Idemitsu 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653967
06/14/12 08:02 AM
06/14/12 08:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 348
Illinois
05Blazer Offline
05Blazer  Offline
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 348
Illinois
Hokie

"I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs" (Hokiefyd).

I bet that Peak 0W20 wouldn't make it to a 10kOCI without some significant wear. Have you seen the VOA on that stuff, yuck!


12 GMC Yukon SLT 4WD 5.3L 8K
Mobil1 EP 5W30 AC DELCO PF48
11 Honda Pilot EX 4WD 3.5L 20k
Penn Plat 0W20 OEM filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2654580
06/14/12 07:19 PM
06/14/12 07:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,115
new york
ottotheclown Offline
ottotheclown  Offline
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,115
new york
Me, I face a $80 bill for Subaru syn 0-20 for my 2012 Forester at the stealer. Guess what I am going to do???


ottotheclown
Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™