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Another non-synthetic 0w-20 #2652771
06/13/12 02:23 AM
06/13/12 02:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,686
CA
The Critic Online crying OP
The Critic  Online Crying OP

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,686
CA
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9040510&contentId=7061133

I was on the Castrol website earlier and noticed that GTX SynBlend is being offered in a 0w-20. The MSDS was issued on 4/10 so I am guessing that this is a new product.

Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks. So, buyers should not assume that all 0w-20s will always be full-synthetic.


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 190K - Idemitsu ZEPRO Adv. Moly 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 137K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652778
06/13/12 03:21 AM
06/13/12 03:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 03:26 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 85,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 155,000 M1

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652785
06/13/12 03:45 AM
06/13/12 03:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,686
CA
The Critic Online crying OP
The Critic  Online Crying OP

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 20,686
CA
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Yes, Honda has had house brands in both full syn and blend 0W-20 since they introduced their COP made oils.

That's slicing the market pretty thin, isn't it?

Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?

As of now, Honda/CP and Valvoline Durablend were the only ones with a non-syn 0w-20.

Now Castrol has entered the market in that area.


2011 Toyota Prius 1.8L - 190K - Idemitsu ZEPRO Adv. Moly 0W-20
2007 Honda Accord 2.4 - 137K - Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652816
06/13/12 06:02 AM
06/13/12 06:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Hokiefyd Offline
Hokiefyd  Offline

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Your thread begs the question for 0W-20 oil users (I now have two late model OE 0W-20 engines): Is saving a couple of bucks a quart ENOUGH for you to use a lower quality oil in your baby?


Castrol already offers a 0W-20 in their Edge line; I've seen it at Advance Auto. I didn't notice the price; it likely carries a huge premium there. If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Hokiefyd] #2652832
06/13/12 06:47 AM
06/13/12 06:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
If Castrol can get this GTX 0W-20 in a jug on the shelves at major discount retailers, for $20/jug, then it should be a great value. "Synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely marketing terms anyway, especially because we don't know the actual blended ratios of the base stocks.

And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.

IMHO, 10,000 miles is pushing the envelope for any oil when designers HAVE NO CLUE how the vehicle is driven every day. Now, they are reducing the margin for shear and viscosity deterioration. Some one is going to take this too far.

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 06:54 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 85,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 155,000 M1

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652881
06/13/12 07:42 AM
06/13/12 07:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 31,256
NJ
buster Offline
buster  Offline

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 31,256
NJ
Quote:
Obviously, 0w20 can be blended without needing to use mostly synthetic base stocks


I'm not so sure about this. You do need mostly syn base oils.

From Mobil.com FAQ:

10. Are all 0W-20 viscosity oils synthetics? Yes. The 0W-20 viscosity grade requires synthetic-base oils to meet low-temperature performance standards. >>back


Most if not all 0w20's are synthetic. I am not sure if I believe you can make a 0w20 blend of mostly GrpII+.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2652894
06/13/12 08:02 AM
06/13/12 08:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Hokiefyd Offline
Hokiefyd  Offline

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 14,505
Top of Virginia
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
And this gets to the root of my question. My new Toyota V6 comes with TGMO full syn 0W-20 along with a 10,000 mile OCI. I wonder if Toyota says the design and performance differences beyween full syn and semi-blends don't matter. Note that Toyota specifically advises reducing the OCI in HALF when 5W-20 (presumably conventional) is used. I have no doubt that the cheapest 0W-20 available will find it's way into these engines and I wonder if Toyota engineers left enough safety margin in the performance of blends to go the full OCI.


Right now, the "cheapest 0W-20 available" is Mobil 1 AFE 0W-20, if by cheapest you mean most inexpensive. Now, if by cheapest you mean the poorest quality, I revert back to my belief that the differences in "synthetic" and "semi-synthetic" are largely in marketing, and anything meeting the 0W-20 specification is going to have very good performance properties.

And for another data point, Hondas are out there doing 10k mile OCIs on conventional 5W-20. I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs.

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652923
06/13/12 08:48 AM
06/13/12 08:48 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.


2019 VW Jetta S,6M OCI#0 3107mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#6 43467mi-Valvoline Adv 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2652935
06/13/12 09:08 AM
06/13/12 09:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,491
TX
DrDusty86 Offline
DrDusty86  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,491
TX
ARCO- RP AZO....

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653015
06/13/12 11:04 AM
06/13/12 11:04 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
I think that's a nyet on the RP for their street oils.


2019 VW Jetta S,6M OCI#0 3107mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#6 43467mi-Valvoline Adv 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: ARCOgraphite] #2653037
06/13/12 11:42 AM
06/13/12 11:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Indydriver Offline
Indydriver  Offline

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,206
Indiana
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?

Last edited by Indydriver; 06/13/12 11:45 AM.

2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 14,000 M1
2012 Sienna 85,000 M1
2007 Tahoe 155,000 M1

Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653050
06/13/12 11:56 AM
06/13/12 11:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,668
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,668
Canada
Nice to see another option in the 0W-20 grade.

Castrol now has 3 0W-20's - they have Edge 0W-20, Edge w/SPT (black bottle) 0W-20, and Syntec Blend 0W-20.

However, I doubt we will ever see it up here, we still only have a tiny bit of Edge 0W-20 up here, no mainstream stores carry it.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 142k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: Indydriver] #2653948
06/14/12 08:45 AM
06/14/12 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,803
N.H, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Indydriver:
ILSAC GF-5 "conventional" must beat a PAO synthethic standard test oil in fuel mileage and must also be OLM capable and pass TEOST deposit test (for turbo and ring area deposits) in the heavier grades. So what is compromised? And what would be the "real" higher group(iv+v)synthetic you are buying that's not a specialty or racing product? Amsoil Signature? I cant think of ANY major player currently that advertises as "fully synthtetic" that uses only group iv and higher.

Are you saying that you believe there is no performance difference in the 0W-20 viscosity between an oil marketed as "full synthetic" and one priced two bucks lower labeled "synthetic blend" (within brand)?
Maybe a marginal cold crank improvement and hopefully a small VI improvement. Otherwise they meet the same spec.


2019 VW Jetta S,6M OCI#0 3107mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#6 43467mi-Valvoline Adv 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2653967
06/14/12 09:02 AM
06/14/12 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 349
Illinois
05Blazer Offline
05Blazer  Offline

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 349
Illinois
Hokie

"I'd say that even the worst quality 0W-20 out there will be sufficient for Toyota's 10k mile OCIs" (Hokiefyd).

I bet that Peak 0W20 wouldn't make it to a 10kOCI without some significant wear. Have you seen the VOA on that stuff, yuck!


2014 Lexus F-Sport 3.5L HO
Mobil1 0W20 OEM filter
11 Honda Pilot EX 4WD 3.5L 70k
Penn Plat 0W20 OEM filter
Re: Another non-synthetic 0w-20 [Re: The Critic] #2654580
06/14/12 08:19 PM
06/14/12 08:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,115
new york
ottotheclown Offline
ottotheclown  Offline

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,115
new york
Me, I face a $80 bill for Subaru syn 0-20 for my 2012 Forester at the stealer. Guess what I am going to do???


ottotheclown
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