Hey everybody, new to the forum, and came here after an online referral. I have a 2000 Subaru Outback with 165000 miles on it. I bought it used at 158000. I have been following routine maintenance so far, and got some initial tune up stuff completed when I bought the car. I commute about 45 miles each way from Redding, CA to Weaverville, CA. I drive on a combination of back country roads, four lane highway, and windy mountain passes reaching elevations of over 3,000 feet and back down to sea-level again. Not too much stop and go, however. I am a fairly aggressive driver, but tend to stick to the speed limit or right above it. I have 5W-30 right now, but noticed some consumption when I went to check the dipstick. Maybe i brushed it against the tube, but I checked it three times, and it wasn't even registering, and then after adding a quart and a half and letting it run, it was over the full line and up the stick a ways so it went from one extreme to the other. There are no observed leaks, and the car sounds and appears to be running normally. Any idea what could be causing the consumption problem (if there is one) and any recommendations for oil for my car? I was planning on changing every 7000 miles but due to my daily drive I will probably be changing it on the harsh schedule (every 3750) alternating doing it myself and having it done in a shop so better trained eyes are at least looking for stuff I don't have the experience to notice. i was also planning on using PureONE filters unless anyone thinks it's unnecessary. Thanks for your insight.
2000 Subaru Outback oil/filter reccomendation
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I would not change your oil at 3.7K miles if you have to add oil to ensure that it is in the proper range. I believe you can go at a minimum of 5K between OCI's with your driving habits likely further but I would not recommend it until there is some data telling us how your oil is preforming and how good of "shape" your engine is in. Pureone filters are not needed but you could do worst. It is a very high quality filter. Is your oil level a little low after your first oil change?
We'll find out. It's been about 5000 miles so I will change it tomorrow or Sunday.
Maybe a High Mileage oil will help with the consumption. I never had more than a quart consumption between a '00 RS and a '99 Outback running Max Life or Pennzoil High Mileage conventional 5W-30 at 5-6k mile intervals.
I only run OEM oil filters for the 23 psi bypass setting, although I'm sure there are thousands of people that run 8-11 bypass setting filters with no problem. One of the Purolator filters is close, and there's a new Wix filter that has the same bypass (57712).
-Dennis
I had seen numerous rumblings on the interwebs about how the OEM Subaru filters (black) were made by Purolator before they switched to blue filters which were manufactured by Fram. All I ever read is how Frams are garbage. Do you find that this assertion is true, or are you using a stockpile of black filters instead?
Subaru dipsticks suck. I've had several now. Best way to get a decent reading is on a level surface after letting it sit all night, or at least 10 minutes after shutting it off. Warm readings are rarely consistent.
Check/replace your PCV, it can cause consumption to go through the roof when it clogs on our boxer engines.
Valve cover gaskets are another common leak point, so if you find your spark plugs and/or wires wet with oil...it's a fairly easy fix. Also the headgaskets can weep oil and/or coolant. Annoying, but as long as it doesn't run low it'll be fine. Last leak point is the rear separator plate. If this leaks...don't bother. You have the pull the engine to replace it.
I've had the least consumption and quietest engine on plain Pennzoil conventional 5w30. Wix currently makes a filter than meets Subaru's oddly high bypass spec. PureOne's come close, but lack the anti-drain back valve. That being said, if you can get the Subaru filter at a decent price they'll do fine for a 5k OCI. They are built by Honeywell (Fram's parent company) to Subaru spec. It is mostly their middle line filter with a higher bypass spec.
Has the timing belt job been done? The interval is 105k miles/105 months. These are interference engines, so broken belt equals busted up engine with big repair bill. The belt, all idlers, all pulleys, and water pump should be replaced at the same job...all can make it to 105k, none will make it to 210k. Any of them fail, the belt goes with them. Would also recommend resealing oil pump and replacing crank and cam seals at this service.
Check/replace your PCV, it can cause consumption to go through the roof when it clogs on our boxer engines.
Valve cover gaskets are another common leak point, so if you find your spark plugs and/or wires wet with oil...it's a fairly easy fix. Also the headgaskets can weep oil and/or coolant. Annoying, but as long as it doesn't run low it'll be fine. Last leak point is the rear separator plate. If this leaks...don't bother. You have the pull the engine to replace it.
I've had the least consumption and quietest engine on plain Pennzoil conventional 5w30. Wix currently makes a filter than meets Subaru's oddly high bypass spec. PureOne's come close, but lack the anti-drain back valve. That being said, if you can get the Subaru filter at a decent price they'll do fine for a 5k OCI. They are built by Honeywell (Fram's parent company) to Subaru spec. It is mostly their middle line filter with a higher bypass spec.
Has the timing belt job been done? The interval is 105k miles/105 months. These are interference engines, so broken belt equals busted up engine with big repair bill. The belt, all idlers, all pulleys, and water pump should be replaced at the same job...all can make it to 105k, none will make it to 210k. Any of them fail, the belt goes with them. Would also recommend resealing oil pump and replacing crank and cam seals at this service.
The stock oil filter on the Outback is a small one, I forget how much room you have for a longer oil filter but if you have room put a longer filter on.
Baldwin makes 4 or 5 that are longer than the stock filter, up to 5 1/8" long.
ROD
Baldwin makes 4 or 5 that are longer than the stock filter, up to 5 1/8" long.
ROD
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
Subaru dipsticks suck. I've had several now. Best way to get a decent reading is on a level surface after letting it sit all night, or at least 10 minutes after shutting it off. Warm readings are rarely consistent.
Check/replace your PCV, it can cause consumption to go through the roof when it clogs on our boxer engines.
Valve cover gaskets are another common leak point, so if you find your spark plugs and/or wires wet with oil...it's a fairly easy fix. Also the headgaskets can weep oil and/or coolant. Annoying, but as long as it doesn't run low it'll be fine. Last leak point is the rear separator plate. If this leaks...don't bother. You have the pull the engine to replace it.
I've had the least consumption and quietest engine on plain Pennzoil conventional 5w30. Wix currently makes a filter than meets Subaru's oddly high bypass spec. PureOne's come close, but lack the anti-drain back valve. That being said, if you can get the Subaru filter at a decent price they'll do fine for a 5k OCI. They are built by Honeywell (Fram's parent company) to Subaru spec. It is mostly their middle line filter with a higher bypass spec.
Has the timing belt job been done? The interval is 105k miles/105 months. These are interference engines, so broken belt equals busted up engine with big repair bill. The belt, all idlers, all pulleys, and water pump should be replaced at the same job...all can make it to 105k, none will make it to 210k. Any of them fail, the belt goes with them. Would also recommend resealing oil pump and replacing crank and cam seals at this service.
I generally agree with everything you just said lol.
Replace PCV is a good first step-I've started replacing mine every 30k.
Oil filters? I like the idea of the wix myself, but I'm sitting on a couple Pure Ones still, and they've seemed to have held up well.
Another idea is to go with a 10w-40 high mileage oil as well. Quite a few older EJ motors will start to develop (a little bit) of ring blow-by after a ton of miles, so it's not the end of the world if it eats a quart over the course of an OCI.
Also, the factory recommended OCI is 7500mi, with "severe service" (what does that mean anyway? Towing in death valley? Racing Hondas to work every day? Climbing pikes peak?) at 3750 miles. If you're feeling at all paranoid, I'd stick with 5k or so.
Subaru dipsticks suck. I've had several now. Best way to get a decent reading is on a level surface after letting it sit all night, or at least 10 minutes after shutting it off. Warm readings are rarely consistent.
Check/replace your PCV, it can cause consumption to go through the roof when it clogs on our boxer engines.
Valve cover gaskets are another common leak point, so if you find your spark plugs and/or wires wet with oil...it's a fairly easy fix. Also the headgaskets can weep oil and/or coolant. Annoying, but as long as it doesn't run low it'll be fine. Last leak point is the rear separator plate. If this leaks...don't bother. You have the pull the engine to replace it.
I've had the least consumption and quietest engine on plain Pennzoil conventional 5w30. Wix currently makes a filter than meets Subaru's oddly high bypass spec. PureOne's come close, but lack the anti-drain back valve. That being said, if you can get the Subaru filter at a decent price they'll do fine for a 5k OCI. They are built by Honeywell (Fram's parent company) to Subaru spec. It is mostly their middle line filter with a higher bypass spec.
Has the timing belt job been done? The interval is 105k miles/105 months. These are interference engines, so broken belt equals busted up engine with big repair bill. The belt, all idlers, all pulleys, and water pump should be replaced at the same job...all can make it to 105k, none will make it to 210k. Any of them fail, the belt goes with them. Would also recommend resealing oil pump and replacing crank and cam seals at this service.
I generally agree with everything you just said lol.
Replace PCV is a good first step-I've started replacing mine every 30k.
Oil filters? I like the idea of the wix myself, but I'm sitting on a couple Pure Ones still, and they've seemed to have held up well.
Another idea is to go with a 10w-40 high mileage oil as well. Quite a few older EJ motors will start to develop (a little bit) of ring blow-by after a ton of miles, so it's not the end of the world if it eats a quart over the course of an OCI.
Also, the factory recommended OCI is 7500mi, with "severe service" (what does that mean anyway? Towing in death valley? Racing Hondas to work every day? Climbing pikes peak?) at 3750 miles. If you're feeling at all paranoid, I'd stick with 5k or so.
Consumption might not be an engine problem, but rather an oil problem. My Outback does not like some 5w-30s, for instance Napa full synthetic. I'd recommend Maxlife 10w-30 or Rotella T5 10w-30 and your choice of filter. Try to check your oil weekly under the same conditions (hot/cold, location, etc...) and see if consumption continues with a heavier viscosity oil.
Originally Posted By: docsuess84
I had seen numerous rumblings on the interwebs about how the OEM Subaru filters (black) were made by Purolator before they switched to blue filters which were manufactured by Fram. All I ever read is how Frams are garbage. Do you find that this assertion is true, or are you using a stockpile of black filters instead?
The black filters are made in japan by Tokyo Roki
I had seen numerous rumblings on the interwebs about how the OEM Subaru filters (black) were made by Purolator before they switched to blue filters which were manufactured by Fram. All I ever read is how Frams are garbage. Do you find that this assertion is true, or are you using a stockpile of black filters instead?
The black filters are made in japan by Tokyo Roki
On my 1999 Subaru with 172000 miles, I use QS HM 10W30 oil with good results. I use the oem oil filter.
Trying to get an accurate reading on a Subaru dipstick as caused insanity, in some cases.
Trying to get an accurate reading on a Subaru dipstick as caused insanity, in some cases.
Engine oil is easy and probably the least of your worries. My top concern would be the transmission (manual or auto?), the diffs and the coolant.
I've been servicing a 2002 Forester that was fully dealer maintained when we got it at approx 100k miles. The dealer receipts showed that the only tranny-fluid change used 4 liters of fluid (!) and the diffs were filled with a 80w90 (yuck).
So the tranny still had significant level of OE fluid the whole time and only 50-60% of new low-performance fluid. The diffs are running is syrup most of the time and the power-steering hadn't been touched.
Now the diffs have Amsoil 75w90, a pan-drop fluid change to Mobil ATF+4 on the tranny with new filter and extra magnets (the Subaru filters are very expensive but worth it for the trans), Mobil ATF+4 in the power-steering and new coolant.
Also check the compression ratio of the engine. If it's 10:1 like ours you should probably stick with 90+ octane fuel. This might help the head-gasket issue and improve fuel-economy (they use a knock-sensor).
Good luck!
I've been servicing a 2002 Forester that was fully dealer maintained when we got it at approx 100k miles. The dealer receipts showed that the only tranny-fluid change used 4 liters of fluid (!) and the diffs were filled with a 80w90 (yuck).
So the tranny still had significant level of OE fluid the whole time and only 50-60% of new low-performance fluid. The diffs are running is syrup most of the time and the power-steering hadn't been touched.
Now the diffs have Amsoil 75w90, a pan-drop fluid change to Mobil ATF+4 on the tranny with new filter and extra magnets (the Subaru filters are very expensive but worth it for the trans), Mobil ATF+4 in the power-steering and new coolant.
Also check the compression ratio of the engine. If it's 10:1 like ours you should probably stick with 90+ octane fuel. This might help the head-gasket issue and improve fuel-economy (they use a knock-sensor).
Good luck!
Looking at the front of the engine, the big plastic cover that goes across the front covers your timing belt. Check underneath that for oil leaks, these engines like to leak around the cams and with that many miles the oil pump may be starting to leak (not a major concern at this point, but when you have your timing belt replaced it may not be a bad idea to replace that seal). My 04 Legacy has had every seal in the engine replaced (head gaskets were shot by 74k miles, had the whole engine done while it was out) and I still seem to burn half a quart every 4-5k with 82k currently on the clock, a little consumption is normal.
As far as oil, these engines really aren't very picky. I work at CarQuest and have had a few times that I couldn't afford to put the "good stuff" in it and ran the store brand oil and it ran every bit as smooth and quiet on that stuff as it does on full synthetic. In your hotter climate, 10w-30 may be a better alternative as it is less prone to shearing out of grade, but 5w30 should do just fine as well.
As far as oil filters, Subaru switched to that little filter in '00 vs. the big filter that used to come on them but the smaller one is rated to 20 microns rather than 40 microns in the older one (filters more junk out). I run a CarQuest (made by Wix) filter number 87356 in mine, if you need to look it up try a '02 Honda Civic with a 1.7L. It has the same bypass valve setting, same flow rate, etc. but it's another inch or so longer thus more filtration media.
I could swear I felt a difference by changing out my rear diff to Red Line 75w-90, seems smoother and perhaps even more MPG (I didn't change it until 60k though, might have had something to do with that). If you have an automatic transmission, change the front diff fluid with good 75w-90 like Red Line (make sure whatever you put in is GL-5 rated), flush the transmission, and change the spin on filter. For a manual, I like the Super Tech 75w-90 from Wal Mart because it doesn't have any friction modifiers that mess with your synchros, I added some Pennzoil Synchromesh to mine when I changed it 25k ago and it's still shifting smooth as butter.
I'm not sure about the fuel, I run 88 octane but live at 5,500 ft. I tried premium once for 2 tanks and it made absolutely no difference between 91 and 85.5 octane, but I have no idea what effect that would have on the head gaskets.
As far as oil, these engines really aren't very picky. I work at CarQuest and have had a few times that I couldn't afford to put the "good stuff" in it and ran the store brand oil and it ran every bit as smooth and quiet on that stuff as it does on full synthetic. In your hotter climate, 10w-30 may be a better alternative as it is less prone to shearing out of grade, but 5w30 should do just fine as well.
As far as oil filters, Subaru switched to that little filter in '00 vs. the big filter that used to come on them but the smaller one is rated to 20 microns rather than 40 microns in the older one (filters more junk out). I run a CarQuest (made by Wix) filter number 87356 in mine, if you need to look it up try a '02 Honda Civic with a 1.7L. It has the same bypass valve setting, same flow rate, etc. but it's another inch or so longer thus more filtration media.
I could swear I felt a difference by changing out my rear diff to Red Line 75w-90, seems smoother and perhaps even more MPG (I didn't change it until 60k though, might have had something to do with that). If you have an automatic transmission, change the front diff fluid with good 75w-90 like Red Line (make sure whatever you put in is GL-5 rated), flush the transmission, and change the spin on filter. For a manual, I like the Super Tech 75w-90 from Wal Mart because it doesn't have any friction modifiers that mess with your synchros, I added some Pennzoil Synchromesh to mine when I changed it 25k ago and it's still shifting smooth as butter.
I'm not sure about the fuel, I run 88 octane but live at 5,500 ft. I tried premium once for 2 tanks and it made absolutely no difference between 91 and 85.5 octane, but I have no idea what effect that would have on the head gaskets.
Try another oil. My Forester like German Castrol, Torco, Pennzoil Platinum, and Mobil 1 Extended Performance. I am sure it will like most regular oils too. I do use the black filters but I would happily use WIX.
57356 or 87356? The lookup shows 57356 but the bypass PSI setting is a lot different from Subaru spec.
Originally Posted By: Unsullied_Spy
Looking at the front of the engine, the big plastic cover that goes across the front covers your timing belt. Check underneath that for oil leaks, these engines like to leak around the cams and with that many miles the oil pump may be starting to leak (not a major concern at this point, but when you have your timing belt replaced it may not be a bad idea to replace that seal). My 04 Legacy has had every seal in the engine replaced (head gaskets were shot by 74k miles, had the whole engine done while it was out) and I still seem to burn half a quart every 4-5k with 82k currently on the clock, a little consumption is normal.
As far as oil, these engines really aren't very picky. I work at CarQuest and have had a few times that I couldn't afford to put the "good stuff" in it and ran the store brand oil and it ran every bit as smooth and quiet on that stuff as it does on full synthetic. In your hotter climate, 10w-30 may be a better alternative as it is less prone to shearing out of grade, but 5w30 should do just fine as well.
As far as oil filters, Subaru switched to that little filter in '00 vs. the big filter that used to come on them but the smaller one is rated to 20 microns rather than 40 microns in the older one (filters more junk out). I run a CarQuest (made by Wix) filter number 87356 in mine, if you need to look it up try a '02 Honda Civic with a 1.7L. It has the same bypass valve setting, same flow rate, etc. but it's another inch or so longer thus more filtration media.
I could swear I felt a difference by changing out my rear diff to Red Line 75w-90, seems smoother and perhaps even more MPG (I didn't change it until 60k though, might have had something to do with that). If you have an automatic transmission, change the front diff fluid with good 75w-90 like Red Line (make sure whatever you put in is GL-5 rated), flush the transmission, and change the spin on filter. For a manual, I like the Super Tech 75w-90 from Wal Mart because it doesn't have any friction modifiers that mess with your synchros, I added some Pennzoil Synchromesh to mine when I changed it 25k ago and it's still shifting smooth as butter.
I'm not sure about the fuel, I run 88 octane but live at 5,500 ft. I tried premium once for 2 tanks and it made absolutely no difference between 91 and 85.5 octane, but I have no idea what effect that would have on the head gaskets.
Originally Posted By: Unsullied_Spy
Looking at the front of the engine, the big plastic cover that goes across the front covers your timing belt. Check underneath that for oil leaks, these engines like to leak around the cams and with that many miles the oil pump may be starting to leak (not a major concern at this point, but when you have your timing belt replaced it may not be a bad idea to replace that seal). My 04 Legacy has had every seal in the engine replaced (head gaskets were shot by 74k miles, had the whole engine done while it was out) and I still seem to burn half a quart every 4-5k with 82k currently on the clock, a little consumption is normal.
As far as oil, these engines really aren't very picky. I work at CarQuest and have had a few times that I couldn't afford to put the "good stuff" in it and ran the store brand oil and it ran every bit as smooth and quiet on that stuff as it does on full synthetic. In your hotter climate, 10w-30 may be a better alternative as it is less prone to shearing out of grade, but 5w30 should do just fine as well.
As far as oil filters, Subaru switched to that little filter in '00 vs. the big filter that used to come on them but the smaller one is rated to 20 microns rather than 40 microns in the older one (filters more junk out). I run a CarQuest (made by Wix) filter number 87356 in mine, if you need to look it up try a '02 Honda Civic with a 1.7L. It has the same bypass valve setting, same flow rate, etc. but it's another inch or so longer thus more filtration media.
I could swear I felt a difference by changing out my rear diff to Red Line 75w-90, seems smoother and perhaps even more MPG (I didn't change it until 60k though, might have had something to do with that). If you have an automatic transmission, change the front diff fluid with good 75w-90 like Red Line (make sure whatever you put in is GL-5 rated), flush the transmission, and change the spin on filter. For a manual, I like the Super Tech 75w-90 from Wal Mart because it doesn't have any friction modifiers that mess with your synchros, I added some Pennzoil Synchromesh to mine when I changed it 25k ago and it's still shifting smooth as butter.
I'm not sure about the fuel, I run 88 octane but live at 5,500 ft. I tried premium once for 2 tanks and it made absolutely no difference between 91 and 85.5 octane, but I have no idea what effect that would have on the head gaskets.
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I've been running the 85356. I don't recall the bypass setting off hand (11-13 PSI, if I had to wing it) but it was the same as the one listed for the Subaru engine. Wix has some explanation on their website as to why their bypass valve is set differently, something to do with a better flow rate affecting what point the valve needs to open I think. I haven't had any issues with them in the last 2.5 years I've had the car, starting anywhere from -35 to around 95 degrees and no oil-related issues so I doubt it's too important. For a turbo motor maybe, but these NA 2.5s aren't too picky it seems.
It is the same filter- probably the "5" is replaced by "8" for the CarQuest #. The bypass PSI listed was what you mentioned but the Subaru calls for 23 or so. Not sure what difference that makes in real life, though I have a huge supply of black filters I'll use up and then go to the new Subaru filters. There was a lot of talk about this byapss PSI in the Subaru forum but I don't recall what the verdict was.
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