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Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 #2636200
05/25/12 05:55 PM
05/25/12 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Hessam Offline OP
Hessam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
was wondering if LL-04 oils can be used for LL-01 spec'd engines? if anyone knows would appreciate input. also ran across this article on their website which is pretty informative:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/web.nsf/id/pa_us_domb8bakrw.html


In specific I was looking to try the Lubro-Moly longtime Htech 5W-30 oil for my next oil change on 330xi, but this oil which used to carry the LL-01 rating now carries only LL-04 rating.

However there is another 5w-30 top tech oil which is about 25% more expensive than regular blue bottle 5W-30 longtime high tech and that oil carries both the LL-04 and LL-01 along with a boat load of other diesel and gasoline certs.

link for it:

http://www.yapscarparts.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29837


81 Mercedes 240D 298k Rotella T (MBZ filter)
96 LX450 242k Delo Synthetic 5W-40 (FU XG3600)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636232
05/25/12 06:17 PM
05/25/12 06:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
While LL-01 completely replaces LL-98, LL-04 is slightly different from LL-01.

As far as I know, BMW says that LL-04 can be a substitute for LL-01 ONLY when your fuel does NOT contain ethanol.

I suspect that LL-04 will work with ethanol-containing fuel if you just keep your OCIs short, but that's just a hunch.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: d00df00d] #2636243
05/25/12 06:24 PM
05/25/12 06:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

I suspect that LL-04 will work with ethanol-containing fuel if you just keep your OCIs short, but that's just a hunch.

That's the gist of it, yup. Basically any LL-04 oil is a low/mid SAPs oil. Such oils don't hold up for very long when subject to our fuels in the US. That is why BMW states that LL-04 oils should not be used in their gasoline engines outside of Europe.

Hassam, you'll find a note regarding this on the BMW engine/oil spec matrix image that I posted for you in the other thread.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Quattro Pete] #2636265
05/25/12 06:44 PM
05/25/12 06:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Hessam Offline OP
Hessam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
thanks for your help.. I just got an email from ETY which has pretty much the best prices on Lubro Moly products that I could find anywhere: http://www.yapscarparts.com/index.php

saying that LL-04 is backward compatible to LL-01 but not other way around.


"Hi Hessam --

Thanks for taking the time to ask questions. BMW LL-04 a higher approval than LL-01 -- LL-04 can be used and meets the approvals for LL-01 but not the other way around.

As for the LL-01 -- we will be carrying the Lubro Moly 3864 that is a 5W-40 that is specifically a LL-01. Please see attached PDF.

There are a few items that are not built into the current site and I will update these offerings when the shippment arrives in early June.

Concerning the pricing. We are very competitve with oil pricing but there is not much more I can do but offer the free shipping for amounts over $60.00


thanks again,

allen


Allen Yap - MBA
" Service Is Everything "
E.T.Y Parts Inc.
Import / Foreign Auto Parts Distributor
Wholesale and Retail Services
Phone: 323.254.7442
e-mail: [email protected]
web: www.etyparts.com"


81 Mercedes 240D 298k Rotella T (MBZ filter)
96 LX450 242k Delo Synthetic 5W-40 (FU XG3600)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636279
05/25/12 06:52 PM
05/25/12 06:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,293
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,293
New Jersey
I would not trust LL-04 in a North American gas engine. My 135i, granted it is DI, does not spec LL-04 though it does in Europe.

IIRC, LL04 is low saps, so you would need to watch TBN and other aspects real close, and not do extended or OLM based changes.

Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: JHZR2] #2636288
05/25/12 07:02 PM
05/25/12 07:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Hessam Offline OP
Hessam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
No I will definitely not be using any LL-04 oils in the place of LL-01 (thanks to BIOG board members)!!!

Looks like lubo moly only has 2 oils which are approved for LL-01 spec: their new Leichtlauf High Tech 5W-40 and their Leichtlauf Special LL 5W-30.

Here's the link for their specs:

Lubo Moly Oil Specs

Last edited by Hessam; 05/25/12 07:04 PM.

81 Mercedes 240D 298k Rotella T (MBZ filter)
96 LX450 242k Delo Synthetic 5W-40 (FU XG3600)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636290
05/25/12 07:04 PM
05/25/12 07:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,833
IL
Ndx Offline
Ndx  Offline
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,833
IL
Longlife-04 oils must not be used in BMW spark-ignition engines in
countries outside Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway and Liechtenstein).


5) Longlife-04 oils are only approved for spark-ignition engines in Europe (EU plus Switzerland, Norway
and Liechtenstein). They must not be used outside this area.

Therefore, for petrol engines, use only oils designated BMW Longlife-01 or BMW LL-01

LL-1 oils are for high sulfur content fuels - as in USA fuels.

LL-4 oil is for low sulfur content fuels - as in Germany/Europe fuels

From 1addicts

Last edited by Ndx; 05/25/12 07:05 PM.
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Ndx] #2636313
05/25/12 07:33 PM
05/25/12 07:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Hessam Offline OP
Hessam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
NDX that makes a lot of sense.... but how can they have an oil that is spec'd for both LL-01 and LL-04 then? Based on the premise that LL-01 oils are for high sulfur fuels and LL-04 are for low sulfur fuels, how can the spec for this oil be explained?

Top Tec 4200 5 W-30

Spezifikationen und Freigaben:
ACEA A3-04/B4-04/C3-04
VW 504 00/507 00
MB-Freigabe 229.51
BMW Longlife-04
Porsche C30
LIQUI MOLY also recommends this product for vehicles for which the
following specifications are required:
MB 229.31
Audi und VW-Gruppe 500 00/501 01/502 00/505 00/505 01/503 00/503 01/
506 00/506 01 (Ausnahme R5 und V10 TDI-Motoren vor
6/2006)
BMW Longlife-01/Longlife-01FE
Fiat 9.55535-S1
API SM/CF
ACEA A5/B5/C2
Peugeot/Citroen (PSA) B71 2290

Last edited by Hessam; 05/25/12 07:40 PM.

81 Mercedes 240D 298k Rotella T (MBZ filter)
96 LX450 242k Delo Synthetic 5W-40 (FU XG3600)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636326
05/25/12 07:48 PM
05/25/12 07:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Hessam
NDX that makes a lot of sense.... but how can they have an oil that is spec'd for both LL-01 and LL-04 then?

As was mentioned before, in Europe LL-04 can be used in place of LL-01, so you could theoretically say that an oil meets both. But that is not the case in the US.

LL-01 can be used with both high-sulfur as well as low-sulfur gas. LL-04 should only be used with low sulfur gas, if you're going to be following the OLM. But if you're going to change your oil every 5K miles, then it doesn't really matter.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636450
05/25/12 09:56 PM
05/25/12 09:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
Hessam: Notice that LL-04 is listed under the specifications and approvals, whereas LL-01 is listed under the recommendations. In other words, it's really an LL-04 product, but LIQUI MOLY (not BMW!) thinks it should work for LL-01 applications as well.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: d00df00d] #2636481
05/25/12 10:26 PM
05/25/12 10:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Hessam Offline OP
Hessam  Offline OP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 516
Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Hessam: Notice that LL-04 is listed under the specifications and approvals, whereas LL-01 is listed under the recommendations. In other words, it's really an LL-04 product, but LIQUI MOLY (not BMW!) thinks it should work for LL-01 applications as well.


Great catch... that's definitely an important distinction.

I've read some people on this board who are running regular LL-98 spec'd oil in M54 engines, or even regular M1 grades like 5W-30 or 5W-40, 10W-40 HM with no problems

Quattro Pete, where/and at what price are you getting you PU 5W-40 from currently?


81 Mercedes 240D 298k Rotella T (MBZ filter)
96 LX450 242k Delo Synthetic 5W-40 (FU XG3600)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636488
05/25/12 10:47 PM
05/25/12 10:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,614
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: Hessam
Quattro Pete, where/and at what price are you getting you PU 5W-40 from currently?

My local distributor sells it for $50 per 6 quarts. But the stuff I'm using is mostly free stock I got from SOPUS a while back. I'm not about to pay $8.33/qt for it. When it's time for the next oil change, I'll just buy whatever LL-01 oil I can find on sale, so that'll be either GC or M1 0w-40.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636630
05/26/12 07:05 AM
05/26/12 07:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
d00df00d Online content
d00df00d  Online Content
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,417
PA
Originally Posted By: Hessam
I've read some people on this board who are running regular LL-98 spec'd oil in M54 engines, or even regular M1 grades like 5W-30 or 5W-40, 10W-40 HM with no problems

Be careful. "No problems" is one of the most vacuous phrases in common usage. 99 times out of 100, all it means is that the engine hasn't instantly exploded. It doesn't mean all is well, let alone as good as it could be.


2008 BMW M3
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: Hessam] #2636682
05/26/12 08:24 AM
05/26/12 08:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 37,917
Ontario, Canada
OVERKILL Offline
OVERKILL  Offline
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Posts: 37,917
Ontario, Canada
Just use an approved lubricant like M1 0w40. Then there is nothing to worry about shrug


2018 RAM 1500 Big Horn EcoDiesel
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT
Re: Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98 [Re: OVERKILL] #2636703
05/26/12 08:46 AM
05/26/12 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,284
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,284
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Just use an approved lubricant like M1 0w40. Then there is nothing to worry about shrug


That's exactly what I was going to post after reading this thread. Readily available, relatively cheap and one of the best motor oils on the market. What's not to like?


1994 BMW 530i, 238K
1996 Honda Accord, 266K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 407K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 280K
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