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TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263092
01/18/03 03:30 AM
01/18/03 03:30 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline OP
BOBISTHEOILGUY  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
OK, Here is a little test/ Demo on gear oils and additives.. I think this shows a good reason NOT TO USE ADDITIVES in general.

THE STORY ON ADDITIVES!

Like to hear what you think.
bob

[ January 18, 2003, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263093
01/18/03 04:08 AM
01/18/03 04:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 69
Rochester, NY
TurboFrog Offline
TurboFrog  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 69
Rochester, NY
[Mad] I still have some left over Lucas Oil Stabilizer to fix my oil-burning Saturn. I was almost going to put that stuff into my Talon's manual transmission, which requires GL-4 oil. Man, I am so glad that I saw this test. I guess I have to throw out the rest of Lucas stuff.

Thank you, Bob [Big Grin]

[ January 18, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: TurboFrog ]

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263094
01/18/03 04:47 AM
01/18/03 04:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 125
Campbellsville,KY
liquidballbearing Offline
liquidballbearing  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 125
Campbellsville,KY
Bob--I'll have to admit, seeing is believing. I actually have this in my 1992 GMC Sonoma's differential right now at probably around 25%. I will definitely be draining this stuff out and replacing with nothing but 80/90 gear oil. My truck which I've owned since new is thanking you. This really is some good work. Thanks again.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263095
01/18/03 05:35 AM
01/18/03 05:35 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline OP
BOBISTHEOILGUY  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
Thanks for the comments. Quite honestly, I was really surprised as to who it frothed up after adding the lucas but do see how it would cause that, but when putting in additives, you can not really tell for sure just how it may react on different lubricants. Definitely shows how critical additive packages are balanced and the least bit of home chemistry can alter the lubricant to extremes.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263096
01/18/03 05:43 AM
01/18/03 05:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 69
Rochester, NY
TurboFrog Offline
TurboFrog  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 69
Rochester, NY
Bob,
just out of my curiosity. What would happend if you added in Lucas stuff to Schaeffers oil?

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263097
01/18/03 05:53 AM
01/18/03 05:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 687
Canada
blano Offline
blano  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 687
Canada
Nice post Bob. I didnt need much coaxing to not use additives. I have believed for years that they are by and large crap.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263098
01/18/03 05:54 AM
01/18/03 05:54 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline OP
BOBISTHEOILGUY  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
I have no idea. I really didn't want to waste the schaeffers gear oil with that because the schaeffers gear oil is already designed with the climbing additive in it already so it doesn't need it. One of the other things I liked was the fact it had very minimal air trapped in it as well.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263099
01/18/03 07:13 AM
01/18/03 07:13 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
BOBISTHEOILGUY Offline OP
BOBISTHEOILGUY  Offline OP
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,874
Ocala, Florida
quote:
Originally posted by blano:
Nice post Bob. I didnt need much coaxing to not use additives. I have believed for years that they are by and large crap.

Thanks Bill, There is some good advantages to additives but very few. It's the fact that oil chemistries are a science and many hours and lots of $$$ goes into blending oil and to think that additive makers can come out with something that works in improving the quality of an oil without disturbing the existing oil's chemistry is definatly not thinking ahead very well. Top that with the improper balance and adding more than stated by the oil additive instructions, just produces more problems.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263100
01/18/03 07:32 AM
01/18/03 07:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
MA
mdv Offline
mdv  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 524
MA
[Eek!] That one page says more than what we could debate in a several endless threads.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263101
01/18/03 07:47 AM
01/18/03 07:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 687
Canada
blano Offline
blano  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 687
Canada
Bob, what you mention about chemistry clash is also a good reson not to mix differant oils to achieve your own "homebrew". It amazes me all the smarter than your average bear types that think they can gain something from this.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263102
01/18/03 07:59 AM
01/18/03 07:59 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,510
Southeast United States
TheLoneRanger Offline
TheLoneRanger  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,510
Southeast United States
Bob, that reminded me of an info-mercial being done by "Mr Wizard". [Razz]

All kidding aside, that's a very good demonstration and took a lot of time and energy to set up. We appreciate it. Keep them coming.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263103
01/18/03 08:03 AM
01/18/03 08:03 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,845
Greenville , Texas
Terry Offline
Terry  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,845
Greenville , Texas
As always Bobs tests are very interesting and thought provoking ! I love this kind of stuff !


Due to the fact that the EP adds in both products have not reached a temperature to be activated this may be seemingly inhibiting the Pennzoil product from reducing surface tension thus allowing aeration and foaming.

The Schaeffers product performs better in this test precisely because it has more silicone polymers or organic copolymers to reduce surface tension.
The Lucas add is a bright stock based add and has a very high surface tension which make the lube on the right foam even worse.



I would also like to see the Lucas additive used with the Schaeffers gear lube.


I would also like to see other brands of gear lubes used in this test. Similar weights compared.

Bob can you try a Pennzoil petroleum brand 80w-90 instead of their Syn 80w-140?

Heat both products prior to test?

I have been a big promoter of the general public sticking with a fully formulated product for safety's sake.

While experimenting non stop for racers to gain an edge and spending alot of time confirming compatibility before recommending a "brew".

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263104
01/18/03 08:36 AM
01/18/03 08:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,317
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
MolaKule  Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 19,317
Iowegia - USA
The ELCA surfactant (that used in Schaeffer's oils) is some of the best wetting chemistry bar-none.

That's why I like the #132 supplement so much.

[ January 18, 2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263105
01/18/03 10:17 AM
01/18/03 10:17 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 277
Greencastle Pa.
RB Shannon Offline
RB Shannon  Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 277
Greencastle Pa.
In this article at Noria, Noria Using oil analysis to control sludge and varnish they go into some detail on the causes of varnish and sludge.Of special interest they talk about Preasure induced thermal degradation,where entrained air in lubricants get compressed and implode(at high temperature),resulting in a sub micron carbon particle where the air bubble once was,I would think this would be a major factor in the lifespan of a gearlube that was foaming like this.

Re: TEST/ DEMO - the story on additives #263106
01/18/03 10:54 AM
01/18/03 10:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,171
Scottsdale, AZ
Toy4x4 Offline
Toy4x4  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,171
Scottsdale, AZ
Since Redline gear oils are recommended here quite a bit, would be nice to see a comparison to their 75w90 (also because thats what I'm using [Big Grin] ).

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