Seafoam, per the current MSDS, is 40-60% Pale Oil (CAS 64742-54-7), 25-35% Naphtha, and 10-20% Isopropyl Alcohol "IPA". IMO, there's clearly better choices for fuel "cleaners" than Seafoam, namely the few polyether amine products out there. As a motor oil "treatment," I assume the pale oil is primarily a diluting carrier for the naphtha solvent (although I know that mineral/baby oil is also an effective degreaser for one's hands). Questions: 1. If added to a gasoline fuel tank, does the pale oil provide ANY purpose or benefit? 2. I assume that, in general, adding even small amounts of oils to gasoline is simply an unhelpful avenue to carbon deposits...and yet a bottle of Seafoam adds 8 oz pale oil to one's gas tank. Any minor harm from this on a one-time basis? I assume it’d be inconsequential…but perhaps there’s some pale oil BENEFIT in gas I’m not aware of. Then again, many fuel "cleaners" have cheap kerosene in them, which is an OILY solvent. Thanks.
Significance of Pale Oil in Seafoam
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It might attack some minor carbon deposits. Other than that, it likely won't do anything except a placebo effect.
Mercedes only recommend Chevron Techron as an additive to gas.
Techron underwent real scientific testing. One thing they found was that on a very few, severely neglected cars, carbon loosening ended up causing engine issues.
After reading the original Techron technical paper, I reaffirmed my respect for scientific method (as opposed to gut feelings) in how one looks after their car, as well as realizing that the simplified instructions one finds, are well intentioned for the average user.
Techron underwent real scientific testing. One thing they found was that on a very few, severely neglected cars, carbon loosening ended up causing engine issues.
After reading the original Techron technical paper, I reaffirmed my respect for scientific method (as opposed to gut feelings) in how one looks after their car, as well as realizing that the simplified instructions one finds, are well intentioned for the average user.
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Yep, of all the gasoline additives out there that the consumer can buy only PEA detergent actually is very effective at decarboning fuel and engines. (Techron, Red Line LS-1 Gumout Regane, and 3M.
The "other stuff" is snake oil, including SeaFoam and MMO.
Check around to see what " independent certified tests" those two products have undergone.....NONE!
The "other stuff" is snake oil, including SeaFoam and MMO.
Check around to see what " independent certified tests" those two products have undergone.....NONE!
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"Yep, of all the gasoline additives out there that the consumer can buy only PEA detergent actually is very effective at decarboning fuel and engines. (Techron, Red Line LS-1 Gumout Regane, and 3M."
B12 Chemtool is also good and powerful stuff, considering it has toluene in it, but I wouldn't use to much of it.
B12 Chemtool is also good and powerful stuff, considering it has toluene in it, but I wouldn't use to much of it.
Originally Posted By: JGW
B12 Chemtool is also good and powerful stuff, considering it has toluene in it, but I wouldn't use to much of it.
Supposedly, CR tested B12 and got good results. I didn't see it myself. Does anyone have a link?
It should be noted, that regular gas has toluene in it already.
B12 Chemtool is also good and powerful stuff, considering it has toluene in it, but I wouldn't use to much of it.
Supposedly, CR tested B12 and got good results. I didn't see it myself. Does anyone have a link?
It should be noted, that regular gas has toluene in it already.
Originally Posted By: TC
Questions: 1. If added to a gasoline fuel tank, does the pale oil provide ANY purpose or benefit? 2. I assume that, in general, adding even small amounts of oils to gasoline is simply an unhelpful avenue to carbon deposits...and yet a bottle of Seafoam adds 8 oz pale oil to one's gas tank. Any minor harm from this on a one-time basis? I assume it’d be inconsequential…but perhaps there’s some pale oil BENEFIT in gas I’m not aware of. Then again, many fuel "cleaners" have cheap kerosene in them, which is an OILY solvent. Thanks.
I recently posted a similar discussion in the oil additive forum (by mistake): http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2613369#Post2613369
There is some evidence that it could be helpful.
Boaters actually swear that SeaFoam is the best gas stabilizer ever and I'm currently testing it: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2613262#Post2613262
Questions: 1. If added to a gasoline fuel tank, does the pale oil provide ANY purpose or benefit? 2. I assume that, in general, adding even small amounts of oils to gasoline is simply an unhelpful avenue to carbon deposits...and yet a bottle of Seafoam adds 8 oz pale oil to one's gas tank. Any minor harm from this on a one-time basis? I assume it’d be inconsequential…but perhaps there’s some pale oil BENEFIT in gas I’m not aware of. Then again, many fuel "cleaners" have cheap kerosene in them, which is an OILY solvent. Thanks.
I recently posted a similar discussion in the oil additive forum (by mistake): http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2613369#Post2613369
There is some evidence that it could be helpful.
Boaters actually swear that SeaFoam is the best gas stabilizer ever and I'm currently testing it: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2613262#Post2613262
I don't know how helpful B12 is in the fuel tank, but the spray version is pretty good at getting carbon off of parts.
As far as MMO, I think it provides more lubrication benefits than cleaning as far as fuel goes. It does work on sticky fuel senders, etc.
For Seafoam, the only way it's worth anything, IMO, is down the intake for carbon removal (and even then, only if carbon buildup is major). It's nothing magical about Seafoam that makes it work, just the fact that it's oil and solvent, which can soak into the carbon after shutdown, provided you were dumping it in fast enough. Once the carbon is soaked, it gets softer, and some of it breaks up and blows out on startup.
I've never seen Seafoam used as a fuel stabilizer, so I have no idea how well it works for that. We've always used Sta-bil on the boat (and up until about 10 years ago, just dri-gas). Fuel sits in the full tanks from October until April, and usually doesn't get replenished until late in the summer. Never had an issue with stale fuel or gummed up carbs.
As far as MMO, I think it provides more lubrication benefits than cleaning as far as fuel goes. It does work on sticky fuel senders, etc.
For Seafoam, the only way it's worth anything, IMO, is down the intake for carbon removal (and even then, only if carbon buildup is major). It's nothing magical about Seafoam that makes it work, just the fact that it's oil and solvent, which can soak into the carbon after shutdown, provided you were dumping it in fast enough. Once the carbon is soaked, it gets softer, and some of it breaks up and blows out on startup.
I've never seen Seafoam used as a fuel stabilizer, so I have no idea how well it works for that. We've always used Sta-bil on the boat (and up until about 10 years ago, just dri-gas). Fuel sits in the full tanks from October until April, and usually doesn't get replenished until late in the summer. Never had an issue with stale fuel or gummed up carbs.
Lol, I just consider Sea Foam a 'temporary idle improver' for my current app.
...and if I'm piston soaking, combustion chamber cleaning...I use an actual top-end foam product.
B-12 chemtool can do some cleansing. However, there are greater risks using solvent based cleaners regarding seals, etc and long-term use and long-term resulting issues(that aren't necessarily immediate at all).
I'd use that in a vehicle I knew a lot about and could weigh the pros/cons before hand. Great as a soak, on the other hand, if performing an oil change after. (not to be ingested into the engine for operation, though I'm sure some do so again the same solvent in your engine issue applies) temporary, please do not perform extended service with solvent cleaners for a long time/or as part of a permanent dosing to your vehicle.
...and if I'm piston soaking, combustion chamber cleaning...I use an actual top-end foam product.
B-12 chemtool can do some cleansing. However, there are greater risks using solvent based cleaners regarding seals, etc and long-term use and long-term resulting issues(that aren't necessarily immediate at all).
I'd use that in a vehicle I knew a lot about and could weigh the pros/cons before hand. Great as a soak, on the other hand, if performing an oil change after. (not to be ingested into the engine for operation, though I'm sure some do so again the same solvent in your engine issue applies) temporary, please do not perform extended service with solvent cleaners for a long time/or as part of a permanent dosing to your vehicle.
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Thanks for all the feedback -- good stuff. I had a bottle of Seafoam sitting in my garage and, without giving it much thought, dumped it into the gas tank of my 2008 VW the other day. Only later after checking the MSDS did I ask myself, "Why the h*ll did I friggin' do that?!!" Mainly because I had just dumped a half-pint of pale oil in the tank, and wondered what the upside/downside would be, if any.
As for a cleaning component, Seafoam is about 30% CAS 64742-49-0 Naphtha (aka Heptane), so that's about 5 oz in a 1 pint bottle. That 5 oz is close to the 6 oz minibottles of Regane (to pick a random name-brand “cleaner”), so the dosage sounds pretty mainstream. FYI, Regane Complete is about 2/3rds kerosene and not a polyether amine “PEA” product – I’m not judging whether it’s liquid gold or snake oil here, just trying to nail down a mainstream “dosage.” OK, so the 5 oz dosage in Seafoam sounds right, but does it work? I did find one fuel product that has CAS 64742-49-0 as its primary component at about 70%, and that’s Henkel Carburetor Cleaner (Google “Henkel 173453”). Henkel’s a huge, reputable, worldwide chemical firm. I’ll assume here that their cleaner does a good job of cleaning soot, varnish, and grease off carbs, and therefore I’ll expand on that to assume that CAS 64742-49-0 is an effective overall fuel system cleaner whether it’s splashed on a carb or dumped into a tank. Assumptions, but I believe very reasonable ones. MY CONCLUSION: Seafoam, at least through the 5 oz of CAS 64742-49-0 Heptane in it, WILL clean out a fuel system. Perhaps a lot, perhaps just a tiny bit. But adding that solvent to gas WILL have some effect. Keep in mind you can clean a garment by soaking it for 24 hrs with a tablespoon of Tide, or use 20 times that much over just 15 minutes in a washing machine, with the same net result. Same thing with small amounts of solvent spread over 300 miles of driving. There’s no “snake oil” to Seafoam – the Heptane WILL have some effect, whether that effect is tiny or substantial. That said, I’d certainly go for a PEA fuel cleaner instead.
As for the 50% CAS 64742-54-7 Pale Oil in Seafoam…. I don’t know why they include it, but the obvious answer would be as a carrier dilutant for the Heptane component when adding to a crankcase, presumably so you don’t wash all the motor oil off parts right under the filler cap, and also because the Pale Oil itself may have solvent qualities (try degreasing your hands with baby oil – it works well). As for adding that Pale Oil to one’s gas tank, I’m still unsure as to what’s up with that – maybe there’s some solvent action there or perhaps it simply lubes the unicorns in the fuel tank. Seafoam also has about 15% Isopropyl Alcohol, which explains their claim of “Controls moisture in fuel” (the alcohol absorbs the water, drawing it out of the tank and through the fuel system), so that’s not snake oil. FYI, Sta-bil is about 95% CAS 64742-47-8 Deodorized Kerosene, so apparently that stuff’s not so much the mystery fluid as one might think.
As for a cleaning component, Seafoam is about 30% CAS 64742-49-0 Naphtha (aka Heptane), so that's about 5 oz in a 1 pint bottle. That 5 oz is close to the 6 oz minibottles of Regane (to pick a random name-brand “cleaner”), so the dosage sounds pretty mainstream. FYI, Regane Complete is about 2/3rds kerosene and not a polyether amine “PEA” product – I’m not judging whether it’s liquid gold or snake oil here, just trying to nail down a mainstream “dosage.” OK, so the 5 oz dosage in Seafoam sounds right, but does it work? I did find one fuel product that has CAS 64742-49-0 as its primary component at about 70%, and that’s Henkel Carburetor Cleaner (Google “Henkel 173453”). Henkel’s a huge, reputable, worldwide chemical firm. I’ll assume here that their cleaner does a good job of cleaning soot, varnish, and grease off carbs, and therefore I’ll expand on that to assume that CAS 64742-49-0 is an effective overall fuel system cleaner whether it’s splashed on a carb or dumped into a tank. Assumptions, but I believe very reasonable ones. MY CONCLUSION: Seafoam, at least through the 5 oz of CAS 64742-49-0 Heptane in it, WILL clean out a fuel system. Perhaps a lot, perhaps just a tiny bit. But adding that solvent to gas WILL have some effect. Keep in mind you can clean a garment by soaking it for 24 hrs with a tablespoon of Tide, or use 20 times that much over just 15 minutes in a washing machine, with the same net result. Same thing with small amounts of solvent spread over 300 miles of driving. There’s no “snake oil” to Seafoam – the Heptane WILL have some effect, whether that effect is tiny or substantial. That said, I’d certainly go for a PEA fuel cleaner instead.
As for the 50% CAS 64742-54-7 Pale Oil in Seafoam…. I don’t know why they include it, but the obvious answer would be as a carrier dilutant for the Heptane component when adding to a crankcase, presumably so you don’t wash all the motor oil off parts right under the filler cap, and also because the Pale Oil itself may have solvent qualities (try degreasing your hands with baby oil – it works well). As for adding that Pale Oil to one’s gas tank, I’m still unsure as to what’s up with that – maybe there’s some solvent action there or perhaps it simply lubes the unicorns in the fuel tank. Seafoam also has about 15% Isopropyl Alcohol, which explains their claim of “Controls moisture in fuel” (the alcohol absorbs the water, drawing it out of the tank and through the fuel system), so that’s not snake oil. FYI, Sta-bil is about 95% CAS 64742-47-8 Deodorized Kerosene, so apparently that stuff’s not so much the mystery fluid as one might think.
I believe the "active" ingredient is actually pale oil and naphtha is to decrease viscosity, so it flows well.
I base my assumption on fact that people who supplement gasoline with some oils report engines run better.
I've heard people use TWC3 oil, PIB (lucas), diesel, ATF, MMO, and similar light oils. People talk about smooth idle and even MPG increase. Mostly in carbureted engines.
I base my assumption on fact that people who supplement gasoline with some oils report engines run better.
I've heard people use TWC3 oil, PIB (lucas), diesel, ATF, MMO, and similar light oils. People talk about smooth idle and even MPG increase. Mostly in carbureted engines.
Using UNapproved solvents in modern automotive fuel systems is just begging for trouble.
Stick with something like Techron or similar, the product is approved by most auto makers as safe for all fuel system components, I doubt that chemical products used to clean old carbs is on their acceptable list.
Stick with something like Techron or similar, the product is approved by most auto makers as safe for all fuel system components, I doubt that chemical products used to clean old carbs is on their acceptable list.
This topic is not about DOs or DONTs though, it's about what the "signifacance" of the pale oil in Seafoam is.......I'm willing to bet it's two-fold, primarily as a lube, upper cylinder lube, at that.....and secondary, as a carrier agent to take the "good stuff" (IPA and Heptane) to where it needs to be.....
Good point too....yea, without the Pale Oil......it would likely just wash the motor oil off all the moving parts......
Keep in mind, in the engine, they only recommend 1.5 oz. per quart.....so that's roughly 7.5 oz, depending on the crankcase size.....(figured it for a 5 qt sump....).
Good point too....yea, without the Pale Oil......it would likely just wash the motor oil off all the moving parts......
Keep in mind, in the engine, they only recommend 1.5 oz. per quart.....so that's roughly 7.5 oz, depending on the crankcase size.....(figured it for a 5 qt sump....).
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