I just bought a used '99 chevy blazer with 95K miles which has a smail oil leak from the oil pan(o-ring gasket) and/or rear main. What is the best treatment that will clean, condition and swell the rubber seal and gasket to reduce to eliminate the leak? Auto-Rx?
Best Seal Conditioners?
- Thread starter nick778
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Rick Auto-Rx does not "Swell" seals. Auto-Rx refurbishes seal material cleans them and stops leaks and if your not satisfied Auto-Rx cost you nothing. After the experts tell you what to do look at who guarantees results. Please spend a little time on www.auto-rx.com
Thank You
Frank Miller
Inventor
Thank You
Frank Miller
Inventor
I have used the Schaeffers Neutra in the crankcase and it has stopped two of my seal leaks.
You may wish to ask Bob about his suggestions on this.
You may wish to ask Bob about his suggestions on this.
Nick,
I would be very careful in administering an additive that swells the seals, in hopes to stop your oil leak. Many chemicals that swell leaks provide very temporary relief. Many chemicals that swell, also dissolve and remove plasticizers essential to the integrity of the original seal material. My suggestion is to chose an additive that will clean the seal and that it will still have the necessary elastomer strength to rebound and reseal.
Many chemicals that swell polymer compounds end up making that polymer less elastic, harder in durometer, and ultimately cause more damage in the long run(after a very short term gain).
I would be very careful in administering an additive that swells the seals, in hopes to stop your oil leak. Many chemicals that swell leaks provide very temporary relief. Many chemicals that swell, also dissolve and remove plasticizers essential to the integrity of the original seal material. My suggestion is to chose an additive that will clean the seal and that it will still have the necessary elastomer strength to rebound and reseal.
Many chemicals that swell polymer compounds end up making that polymer less elastic, harder in durometer, and ultimately cause more damage in the long run(after a very short term gain).
Just go with the auto rx as they claim to stop leaks and neutra will not make that kind of claim nor guarrantee seal stopage.
As rick pointed out, you don't want to have a seal swelling as it would be a temp fix. You do need something that after it cleans can condition a seal as when the grime and such that is acting like a seal comes off the seal, you normally would have a hard seal due to the lack of oil getting through the dirt and grime and having hardened, therefore the seal will need some kind of conditioning.
As rick pointed out, you don't want to have a seal swelling as it would be a temp fix. You do need something that after it cleans can condition a seal as when the grime and such that is acting like a seal comes off the seal, you normally would have a hard seal due to the lack of oil getting through the dirt and grime and having hardened, therefore the seal will need some kind of conditioning.
The neutra bottle also states its use as a crankcase additive to clean engines.
The one I have in question has about 1500 miles post Neutra (neutra was added, run 500 miles or so and then drained, oil and filter changed) So far the seals seem fine. In a year or 15,000 miles, will have to wait and see. However, I now have confidence to place it in my 149,000 mile Camry with a very small seal seepage at present.
The one I have in question has about 1500 miles post Neutra (neutra was added, run 500 miles or so and then drained, oil and filter changed) So far the seals seem fine. In a year or 15,000 miles, will have to wait and see. However, I now have confidence to place it in my 149,000 mile Camry with a very small seal seepage at present.
MolaKule
Staff member
"I just bought a used '99 chevy blazer with 95K miles which has a smail oil leak from the oil pan(o-ring gasket) and/or rear main. What is the best treatment that will clean, condition and swell the rubber seal and gasket to reduce to eliminate the leak? Auto-Rx? "
How about tweaking the torque on the oil pan bolts anoth 3 lb.-ft?
I would like to see some of the contributors define seal "conditioning."
Do you mean softening, swelling, cleaning, or ....?
How about tweaking the torque on the oil pan bolts anoth 3 lb.-ft?
I would like to see some of the contributors define seal "conditioning."
Do you mean softening, swelling, cleaning, or ....?
nick,
Bob's got an interesting example of the cleaning & swelling properties of motor oils & Schaeffer's 131 Neutra. It's in the far right-hand column of the front page, the "Clickhere" link. I think Rick20's got some valid concerns. The 131 is listed as a fuel additive, so maybe Spector or Bob can comment on its use as an oil additive (frequency? longevity?).
Bob's got an interesting example of the cleaning & swelling properties of motor oils & Schaeffer's 131 Neutra. It's in the far right-hand column of the front page, the "Clickhere" link. I think Rick20's got some valid concerns. The 131 is listed as a fuel additive, so maybe Spector or Bob can comment on its use as an oil additive (frequency? longevity?).
I concur, if an oil pan (not a seal) you can usually torque the bolts and this will stop it or slow it down. Believe it or not I have also had success with cleaning around the pan where the gasket is and applying a silicon sealant (gasket sealer) to the outside where the two peices come together. It seals it from the outside. Actually works some of the time but obviously not a long term solution.
Thanks everyone. I called schaffers and was told that i should not use neutra 131 to help with a sealing or oil leak problem and it was not designed to be a crankcase additive(just fuel). I also talked to Frank and have ordered the auto-rx.
I perhaps used the wrong word in my initial post. I understand I do not want to 'swell' the seal, just clean and recondition it to it seals properly. Frank told me that auto-rx should accomplish this. He suggested I run it for 750 miles in the crankcase, drain, new filter and use dino oil as the chemistry of the dino will effectively help the seal do its job onced cleaned. He said the leak should stop within 1000-1500 miles after the 750 mile autorx then drain/refill procedure.
On retorqing the oil pan bolts...Mixed feelings on this as the aluminum oil pan is a structual component and is sealed with a rubber o-ring type and not regular gasket material. Plus not sure if it is the oil pan or rear main seal that has the slow leak. The Chevy dealership told me retorqing may the leak to get worse. Or maybe they just want some shop work. I may indeed try this after the auto-rx does its job but at a couple of pounds less than the specs call for just to ensure they are all at least the same torque but over torqued.
I perhaps used the wrong word in my initial post. I understand I do not want to 'swell' the seal, just clean and recondition it to it seals properly. Frank told me that auto-rx should accomplish this. He suggested I run it for 750 miles in the crankcase, drain, new filter and use dino oil as the chemistry of the dino will effectively help the seal do its job onced cleaned. He said the leak should stop within 1000-1500 miles after the 750 mile autorx then drain/refill procedure.
On retorqing the oil pan bolts...Mixed feelings on this as the aluminum oil pan is a structual component and is sealed with a rubber o-ring type and not regular gasket material. Plus not sure if it is the oil pan or rear main seal that has the slow leak. The Chevy dealership told me retorqing may the leak to get worse. Or maybe they just want some shop work. I may indeed try this after the auto-rx does its job but at a couple of pounds less than the specs call for just to ensure they are all at least the same torque but over torqued.
Thats what I like, getting someone at the main office that has no idea what they're talking about and has no experience with the product themselves like what we have in the field. I figured when vetteman suggested to call that Like most companies that are called or emailed as you have seen posted on this board, many of these people answering questions don't have no where the knowledge that it really takes to be qualified to answer some of these questions. They go with what they know from the td sheet but just as you pointed out... They said was not designed to be a crankcase additive(just fuel) but look on a bottle and see where you it shows you to put it in a crankcase for an engine purge.. Bet also that same guy doesn't know that the 292 is the same stuff only relabled in a different container.
They have about 4 or 5 techs and only one that I trust that knows what he is talking about. He had told me that it can be used in transmissions after being told by the others they wouldn't. Thats why he is the head chemist/cls and they're not.
So if you can't believe me in what I'm telling you, and feel that the "tech" at the main office knows more on the subject, then I guess I'm wasting my time. Thanks.
bob
They have about 4 or 5 techs and only one that I trust that knows what he is talking about. He had told me that it can be used in transmissions after being told by the others they wouldn't. Thats why he is the head chemist/cls and they're not.
So if you can't believe me in what I'm telling you, and feel that the "tech" at the main office knows more on the subject, then I guess I'm wasting my time. Thanks.
bob
Quote:
"and it was not designed to be a crankcase additive(just fuel)."
Thats a interesting non recommendation made by whoever you spoke with at Schaeffers because on the label of a bottle of the #131 Nuetra it states:
( For engine purge: To gently dissolve internal varnish and carbon deposits add 1 ounce of NEURTRA for each quart of motor oil directly to crankcase.( Example: 5 ounces NUETRA to 5 quarts of motor oil. )
It does not say how long to use it either in terms of miles or in hours run although I have now used it in four engines with great results.And of course,this is my opinion based on my observations.
A very qualified and trusted, well respected member has unlocked the 131 key to be that the two components in it added together form an Ester if memory serves me correctly. I hope he sees this and adds to the topic.
That oil pan seal is in a non dynamic application or use. I do not possibly see how that retorquing it would make it leak more. A cork gasket,yes. But not this type sitting in a receiver gland statically. But please do not do as I say,,be your own judge on your automobile because I am just a lowly Pratt and Whitney and General Electric Engine Mechanic by trade,,not a special oil expert
"and it was not designed to be a crankcase additive(just fuel)."
Thats a interesting non recommendation made by whoever you spoke with at Schaeffers because on the label of a bottle of the #131 Nuetra it states:
( For engine purge: To gently dissolve internal varnish and carbon deposits add 1 ounce of NEURTRA for each quart of motor oil directly to crankcase.( Example: 5 ounces NUETRA to 5 quarts of motor oil. )
It does not say how long to use it either in terms of miles or in hours run although I have now used it in four engines with great results.And of course,this is my opinion based on my observations.
A very qualified and trusted, well respected member has unlocked the 131 key to be that the two components in it added together form an Ester if memory serves me correctly. I hope he sees this and adds to the topic.
That oil pan seal is in a non dynamic application or use. I do not possibly see how that retorquing it would make it leak more. A cork gasket,yes. But not this type sitting in a receiver gland statically. But please do not do as I say,,be your own judge on your automobile because I am just a lowly Pratt and Whitney and General Electric Engine Mechanic by trade,,not a special oil expert
Bob, you are NOT wasting your time but people are just trying to get good information - as many of us have got taken advantage of by the marketing types years ago on different products.
(BTW, I'm from Missouri - the show me state
)
I must say that I noted on the "Neutra Fuel Treatment" bottle that I got it says nothing about adding it to the crankcase or oil. It also doesn't have the "131" on the label anywhere. So I'm going to add it to both my gas and crankcase unless I find some reason not to. I've added it to my gas but I'm still waiting on the oil until a later date.
I too would like a better explaination of what "conditions seals" means.
I enjoy reading all of your post and the informative discussion and will be trying more products in the future.
(BTW, I'm from Missouri - the show me state
I must say that I noted on the "Neutra Fuel Treatment" bottle that I got it says nothing about adding it to the crankcase or oil. It also doesn't have the "131" on the label anywhere. So I'm going to add it to both my gas and crankcase unless I find some reason not to. I've added it to my gas but I'm still waiting on the oil until a later date.
I too would like a better explaination of what "conditions seals" means.
I enjoy reading all of your post and the informative discussion and will be trying more products in the future.
look at the right side of this lable found on the back of the 12oz neutra 131 bottle.
Thanks for not shooting the messenger(me). I just relayed what the "tech" person told me at Schaeffers. Also, thanks for the clarification. Hopefully the Auto-rx will work.
Also, I am no mechanical expert...just relaying what the Chevy mechanics told me. Learned a long time ago to be wary of most of these folks however. So, yes, I will retorque the oil pan bolts and thanks again for the assistance everyone.
As an aside, it would be interesting to know the technical and application differences of Auto-Rx and Neutra. Both seem like high quality products in their own right.
Also, I am no mechanical expert...just relaying what the Chevy mechanics told me. Learned a long time ago to be wary of most of these folks however. So, yes, I will retorque the oil pan bolts and thanks again for the assistance everyone.
As an aside, it would be interesting to know the technical and application differences of Auto-Rx and Neutra. Both seem like high quality products in their own right.
Something else I thought about last night...
Dont forget to call K&N and Gunk and all the other engine cleaner companies about their products as I'm sure everyone of them will tell you how their products are not harmful to the engines and does the best job, and I'm sure they don't have any problems with ever having to replace any engines and their not harmful to seals and so on .......
Same with the moly issue from mobils tech dept.. moly is not a good thing to use in an oil quoted by one tech, yet m1 ss has it in there. Alot of his advise based on his limited knowledge / experiences yet he is the "expert" that has just told you so it must be true.
I think you get my drift.... how do you know what to use or decipher as to what does or not? This is one of those reasons for this board, to help establish many points good and bad and to sift through the comments posed by company experts.
Yep, one has to sift throught the marketing hype and lack of knowledge of customer service etc.
For the most part, I go on the assumption that additives are Snake Oil, with a couple of exceptions. The difficult part of anecdotal evidence is that there is a huge incentive to believe whatever product you use works.The sub conscious mind tells us that we are seeing/feeling differences in operation that may not actually be there but because we want to justify our purchase we perceive a benefit..
For the most part, I go on the assumption that additives are Snake Oil, with a couple of exceptions. The difficult part of anecdotal evidence is that there is a huge incentive to believe whatever product you use works.The sub conscious mind tells us that we are seeing/feeling differences in operation that may not actually be there but because we want to justify our purchase we perceive a benefit..
MolaKule
Staff member
What I have been able to determine is that Neutra part # 131 or equivalent is an ester of cresylic acid and butyl alcohol in a thin carrier oil, used to soften carbonaceous deposits in the crankcase and burn-off deposits in the combustion chamber through mixing with the fuel.
I believe Schaeffer's also has a separate product for removing deposits on valve stems, but have never used it. Bob may know more about that product.
I have personally used the product in the crankcase as a pre oil-change flush with good results in a '92 Suburban; it removed the soft lacquer (varnish) on the rocker arms, something no other product I have tried to-date has been able to accomplish. For fuel; added one oz. per fill up (15 gals.) for fuel system maintenance. I am somehwat conservative when using any cleaner or additive which is why I usually recommend reduced treatment levels.
I have yet to use Auto-RX; would certainly like to try that in my '86 Burb which has not been cleaned with any cleaner.
I believe Schaeffer's also has a separate product for removing deposits on valve stems, but have never used it. Bob may know more about that product.
I have personally used the product in the crankcase as a pre oil-change flush with good results in a '92 Suburban; it removed the soft lacquer (varnish) on the rocker arms, something no other product I have tried to-date has been able to accomplish. For fuel; added one oz. per fill up (15 gals.) for fuel system maintenance. I am somehwat conservative when using any cleaner or additive which is why I usually recommend reduced treatment levels.
I have yet to use Auto-RX; would certainly like to try that in my '86 Burb which has not been cleaned with any cleaner.
MolaKule
Staff member
"I would like to see some of the contributors define seal "conditioning." Do you mean softening, swelling, cleaning, or ....? "
What I was implying was that the term "seal conditioning" should have a clear definition.
With Frank's, Bob, Terry's, Rick, and other's inputs, I would like to throw out a definition (for discussion) that more clearly describes seal conditioning:
Seal Conditioning - "the restoring of a seal's pliability to enable the seal to once again conform to the geometry of the surface to be sealed."
WDYT?
What I was implying was that the term "seal conditioning" should have a clear definition.
With Frank's, Bob, Terry's, Rick, and other's inputs, I would like to throw out a definition (for discussion) that more clearly describes seal conditioning:
Seal Conditioning - "the restoring of a seal's pliability to enable the seal to once again conform to the geometry of the surface to be sealed."
WDYT?
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