After Market Oil Filter Concern for Hyundai/Kia ?

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Due to a TSB from Hyundai / Kia stating ominous warnings if using after market filers (citing oil pressure , low flow , anti drain back concerns) - I wonder if I can use NAPA Gold cartridge filters in my 3.8L Kia Sedona or Mobil 1 oil filters in my Hyundai 2.0L ? I believe Mobil 1 , Pure One, Wix , Bosch D + answer the anti - drain back valve question ...but what about slow drain and oil pressure differences ? How would you know if Hyundai / Kia do not state exactly which after market oil filters to stay away from ? I recently bought the M1 oil plus M1 oil filter deal from Advance Auto - now 2nd guessing my decision .
 
A quality oil filter will be fine. If its so special and aftermarket would void the warranty, then the manufacturer needs to supply them for free. Thats the law.
 
Hyundai and any manufacture has to be very careful in the wording so not to cause them a lawsuit. I suspect that Hyundai had discovered that some very inexpensive filters were causing problems. The obvious solution is to recommend their filter. As stated by Donald earlier, that most any good quality oil filter would be fine. Ed
 
Hyundai's filter is *really* of excellent quality and I can get them at my local dealer for around $5 each.

That said, I've had no problems with using aftermarket filters in my Theta II 2.4 engine. And I will continue to do it as long as I get them for "free". The STP S2808 filters that I got recently as part of the Advance / Mobil 5000 deal appear to be of reasonable quality. They aren't great, but aren't bad either.

Hyundai never stated the offending filter's brand or anything else. The TSB is irrelevant since it is just one / or a handful of occasions where they have examined a problem with a specific filter on a certain vehicle.

I can bet that most all of the people getting their Hyundai and Kias oil changed are not doing it at the dealerships. That said, if you expect to have to take it in for service for some reason, just change it out if you are worried about it.

Go to the dealership and buy a few to keep on-hand for your next oil changes or to have a "record" of purchasing them.

What they do require for their warranty is that you keep a valid record of all services as well as receipts. I would suggest also logging services in the warranty book that was provided with the car (at least in the case of KIAs).
 
I believe the TSB actually warns of a knockig noise, but doesn't mention engine damage.

It actually happened to me with a Champ Labs made STP oil filter. The knocking was super loud. A factory oil filter cured it.


Quote:
Hyundai has released a TSB (#05-20-002) "Use of aftermarket engine oil filters causing engine knocking noise.” The TSB notes that, “Some vehicles may experience an engine knock noise with the use of aftermarket oil filters. Aftermarket oil filters may use different materials, construction and specifications than genuine Hyundai oil filters, which may lead to pressure variations within the engine, thus contributing to an engine knocking noise.
 
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I believe the TSB actually warns of a knockig noise, but doesn't mention engine damage.

It actually happened to me with a Champ Labs made STP oil filter. The knocking was super loud. A factory oil filter cured it.


Quote:
Hyundai has released a TSB (#05-20-002) "Use of aftermarket engine oil filters causing engine knocking noise.” The TSB notes that, “Some vehicles may experience an engine knock noise with the use of aftermarket oil filters. Aftermarket oil filters may use different materials, construction and specifications than genuine Hyundai oil filters, which may lead to pressure variations within the engine, thus contributing to an engine knocking noise.


Was this an E-Core, or one of the newer ones? The newest filters don't appear to be E-Core.

Pictures here:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2558466
 
I had been using either Napa Gold and PureOne on my Kia and never noticed any problems. Then I got a case of Forum induced paranoia when I put on a Bosch D+. Somebody in another forum was saying that the thicker media in the D+ was more restrictive and it was causing some engine knocking. I thought I could hear a little too, so I removed the D+ and put on a Kia branded filter, which is still on there. There was no difference in engine noise.

The Kia filter is built very well, and I will run them again, after I burn through my current stash of Napa Golds and Purolators.

Granted, I only have experience with canister filters, and have not used a cartridge filter, but I would not hesitate to use a quality filter like the M1 you have.
 
Kia TSB is more strict - states any engine damage is responsibility of the customer for repair.
 
I am running my car on a Purolator Pure 1 filter. I have had absolutely no problem running the car with this filter.

I will switch to a Purolator Classic filter next with conventional/blend oil (I'm currently running full synthetic) to see if I notice a difference in engine noise, etc.

I've also had this car on a firestone filter from a local Tires Plus lube shop. No problems with that filter as well, so you're fine using most lube shop filters - just do some research or change the oil yourself.

Unfortunately my dealership charges $9 for the Hyundai filter w/out the O-ring.
 
Main concerns I have found were with the Hyundai Beta II 2.0L engine. That would mean the Elantra and on the Kia side I believe the Forte.
 
It's hard to imagine that an oil filter could cause such problems. I wonder if the Hyundai/Kia engines have a pretty low pressure oil pump, or there is something different about their oiling system that makes them more sensitive to slight changes in oil filter restriction? In general, the difference in restriction between oil filters is pretty small. Could be someone used a super cheap filter that was total garbage and caused issues ... then Hyundai/Kia put out a TSB as a blanket CYA move.
 
KIA/Hyundai does not say you can not use an aftermarket oil filter. They just say they do not test or approve any aftermarket filter.

Using aftermarket in and of itself does not void the warranty unless it is proven to actually cause damage. Then they can deny warranty. It really is not KIA/Hyundai problem if the aftermarket filter makers have not done their proper testing and just cataloged what will fit and call it good.

2747217310048713253S600x600Q85.jpg
 
I see their TSB shows an ecore filter ... no wonder.
grin.gif


They do mention wrong oil viscosity too ... which might have a larger factor in less oil flow (especially in cold weather) then the filter itself.
 
Hootbro : More recent TSB than what I last saw ...thanks .
I am only considering M1 , Bosch D+, Wix or Pure One ...hopefully they all did their home work .
 
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
Hootbro : More recent TSB than what I last saw ...thanks .
I am only considering M1 , Bosch D+, Wix or Pure One ...hopefully they all did their home work .


Not to be a fan boy for KIA/Hyundai, but why not just use a OEM from them? They are actually pretty good and you can find them online for under $6 ea when you buy a case of 10 ea.

The problem I worry about is that while a good quality filter like the ones you mentioned may not themselves fail as a filter, they will still cause flow and/or pressure issues to the engine and cause problems there.

You then run into an issue where KIA/Hyundai wash their hands of it for warranty work and then you are left dealing with the filter maker who will just say, "show me a failed filter" and lacking that, you have no recourse with the filter maker. You are then stuck in a Catch-22 of who is going to make it right?

What little I have done in terms of research and this issue in relation to my KIA Soul and aftermarket filters, the main issue is something to do with the bypass ratings on the aftermarket filters not being the same as the KIA filter.
 
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My theory is that some aftermarket filter companies (or maybe just even one) tried to be cheap and didn't build a filter that met Kia and Hyundai's specs, and just picked something close. This caused problems for some engines, and the TSB was issued. This could have been something that was done years ago when Kia and Hyundai were not major players in the US market.

They aren't going to identify a specific filter because that would open them up to potential lawsuits. Also, there's no way to build a 100% reliable list of problematic aftermarket parts. While there aren't many companies building filters, there are a lot of companies selling them - and they change manufactures occasionally so what is a good brand can become a bad one (or the other way around).

Quality aftermarket filters should be OK. No vehicle manufacture is going to cover an engine damaged by an aftermarket filter - this is not unique to Kia or Hyundai.

You should be OK with any of the good filter brands. However it will be up to the filter manufacturer or distributor to stand behind their product in the unlikely event that it causes a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro

The problem I worry about is that while a good quality filter like the ones you mentioned may not themselves fail as a filter, they will still cause flow and/or pressure issues to the engine and cause problems there.


What I don't get is how can an averaged sized filter like a PureOne that can flow 12 GPM of hot oil with only a 5 PSI drop across the filter can cause oiling issues? If that's the case, then the oiling system on these cars is under designed and way too sensitive to any restriction in the system.

I agree with what jim302 said above; that if you use a good aftermarket branded filter, there probably won't be any issues seen. And for sure use the aftermarket filter that is specified for the vehicle if still under warranty, just in case something does happen and a claim needs to be made against the filter manufacturer.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

............. And for sure use the aftermarket filter that is specified for the vehicle if still under warranty, just in case something does happen and a claim needs to be made against the filter manufacturer.


First of all, I could care less what people do with their cars and the filter they choose.

I am just pointing out the scenario that can play out where KIA can say the aftermarket filter was to blame and the filter maker and say their filter is fine and then what?

As to KIA "under designing" their oiling system, what are they under designing to? Car makers do not design cars to the aftermarket system. The aftermarket system is suppose to design to the OEM.

While this TSB is a blanket statement of aftermarket oil filters, it just gives warning to the "potential" and not the "absolute" of what can happen when using an aftermarket filter.

Me personally, if I was going to use a known quality brand aftermarket filter, I would actually write that filter maker and get them their opinion of using their product and this TSB to just see what they say.
 
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

............. And for sure use the aftermarket filter that is specified for the vehicle if still under warranty, just in case something does happen and a claim needs to be made against the filter manufacturer.


First of all, I could care less what people do with their cars and the filter they choose.

I am just pointing out the scenario that can play out where KIA can say the aftermarket filter was to blame and the filter maker and say their filter is fine and then what?


My point was, that if someone decides to use an aftermarket filter and something blows up because of a filter issue, then KIA won't care and wont warranty the failure, and will tell the car owner to go get compensation from the filter manufacturer's warranty. Aftermarket filter manufacturers will NOT warranty a filter related failure and resulting engine damage if the filter they spec out for that vehicle is not used. In either case (dealer or aftermarket manufacturer), you'll have a battle on your hands to prove the filter was even the root cause of the engine failure.

Lot's of BITOG members put larger than specified filters on their vehicles, and doing so when the vehicle is still under warranty is adding some risk.

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
As to KIA "under designing" their oiling system, what are they under designing to? Car makers do not design cars to the aftermarket system. The aftermarket system is suppose to design to the OEM.


You missed the point, which was if the oiling system is so sensitive to what filter and oil viscosity is being used, then it could very well be under designed. Maybe the oil pump is really weak in these engines and the pump goes into bypass/pressure relief mode way too easily. Or maybe some of the oiling circuit is already too restrictive and therefore very sensitive to any filter and oil viscosity changes. No, the car manufacturers do not design around aftermarket filter manufacturers ... but if they were smart at least they should consider as part of their design criteria the range of possible filters that could be used on that particular engine.


Originally Posted By: Hootbro

While this TSB is a blanket statement of aftermarket oil filters, it just gives warning to the "potential" and not the "absolute" of what can happen when using an aftermarket filter.


Of course ... the TSB is a blanket CYA for KIA, and probably based on just a few instances that occurred.

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Me personally, if I was going to use a known quality brand aftermarket filter, I would actually write that filter maker and get them their opinion of using their product and this TSB to just see what they say.


That would be a safe way to go if there is any doubt.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

You missed the point, which was if the oiling system is so sensitive to what filter and oil viscosity is being used, then it could very well be under designed. Maybe the oil pump is really weak in these engines and the pump goes into bypass/pressure relief mode way too easily. Or maybe some of the oiling circuit is already too restrictive and therefore very sensitive to any filter and oil viscosity changes. No, the car manufacturers do not design around aftermarket filter manufacturers ... but if they were smart at least they should consider as part of their design criteria the range of possible filters that could be used on that particular engine.



First of all the point your are trying to make is an assumption. Without being on the engineering team or access to proprietary data of what their start and end point in the design was, to say they "under designed" is conjecture at best.

Absence of fact does not make the supposition.
 
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