help me understand...a few 20w-50 ???'s

[kmrcstintn]

I'm a bit confused about motorcycle oil vs conventional motor oil, particularily in 20w-50 which is the recommended weight for my Buell Blast; a few ???'s

1) what makes motorcycle oil 'wet clutch' compatible & do any of the new SN non-motorcycle oils meet this criteria?

2) I have a shared sump for tranny & chaincase...do I definitely need a 'wet clutch' compatible oil?

3) do the new SN rated 20w-50 non-motorcycle oils have enough antiwear additives to use in my engine (since ZDDP has been greatly reduced/eliminated)?

thanks

 

[Silk]

I doubt if a 20/50 would have any friction modifiers - it's certainly not an ''economy'' oil., Should be pretty safe for a wet clutch. I've gone to a SG rated 20/50 in the hope of more ZDDP, although can't do a UOA until I have used oil.

 

[Shannow]

20w-50 GTX HAD FMs.

 

[rossn2]

Amsoil, Redline, Valvoline VR-1, Mobil One motorcycle oils in 20w-50...
All fine products!

 

[LargeCarManX2]

My opinion is.....

#1 use the correct Jaso rated oil, I don't think the OEM would spec this without first hand knowledge about the clutch slip issue.

#2 Same as above

#3 No, in fact in addition to more additives, most motorcycle oil comes with an additive to keep the engine free from rust in storage or just sitting now and then.

 

[jstutz]

Originally Posted By: kmrcstintn
I'm a bit confused about motorcycle oil vs conventional motor oil, particularily in 20w-50 which is the recommended weight for my Buell Blast; a few ???'s

1) what makes motorcycle oil 'wet clutch' compatible & do any of the new SN non-motorcycle oils meet this criteria?

2) I have a shared sump for tranny & chaincase...do I definitely need a 'wet clutch' compatible oil?

3) do the new SN rated 20w-50 non-motorcycle oils have enough antiwear additives to use in my engine (since ZDDP has been greatly reduced/eliminated)?

thanks


1) Friction modifiers. Clutches are designed to work with oil with a friction coefficient within a specific range. If you go to far out of that range it could cause your clutch plates to slip and increase wear. Many of the PCMO's will work fine for this application. You just have to do your research first. Some motorcycles are very sensitive to this and other are not. Get on a Buell forum and find out what people have had good results with.

2) Being shared has nothing to do with being wet clutch compatible. Being it is shared, just be aware of sheering and follow a reasonable OCI.

3)do they have enough? Probably. I dont know anything about the Buell. Most motorcycles have about 1600 to 1800 ppm ZDDP. Most PCMO's in 20w50 range are in the 1000 to 1300. These numbers are not set in stone and im relying on memory from a few years ago. Many motorcycle guys have used HDEO with great results. Many people have also used M1 15w50 with great results in 20w50 applications.


This is about the best i can do. I really think you should jump on a forum that is based around your bike and see what people are doing. Or hear from someone hear that has one that knows. You may have a bike that is very sensitive to specific parameters that you need to pay attention too. Most likely you can use any of the mainstream 20w50 or 15w50 and be okay.

 

[Robenstein]

Best to use a motorcycle 20w50 for your application. While the auto 20w50 motor oils will not be resource conserving, some may have too much of certain additives known to cause havoc with wet clutches on some bikes like too much moly.

Shared sump as mentioned will cause the oil to shear, and depending on the oil, this may be a little or a lot. Usually motorcycle oils are made with this in mind, while car oils are not.

Many of the 20w50 motor oils no longer have near the anti wear additives they used to . However some do. But honestly, if you shop around you will be able to buy a decent conventional motorcycle oil like Valvoline 4t for about the same as their car 20w50. At my local wal mart the difference was about a buck a quart...so what is 4 bucks extra at an oil change for something you know will be ok? A company that makes a car oil that works today could change their blend without you knowing it....thats the kicker. Lots of people used the car oils they always had but were unaware of the changes in formulation to lower zinc levels and wore their flat tappet cams and lifter down in their vintage muscle cars at a very accelerated rate.

 

[kmrcstintn]

thank you for expanding my knowledge base; my curiosity peaked because a local auto parts store has some SL rated 'Tec 2' or 'Rev 2' conventional oil by 'Castrol Heavy Duty Lubricants' in New Jersey...not exactly sure how 'mature' the stock is, but the bottles are sealed and this in turn peaked my curiosity about new SN rated oils;

I forgot about the Valvoline 4T black bottle conventional & it does appear reasonably priced, compared to some of the other brands like Maxima which spec at SG equivalency; and then I find stuff like Valvoline 4T spec at SJ, and some of the synthetics, such as Amsoil & Castrol, can spec at SL...hence my confusion of what to use;

as far as Buell forums, the best one I found seems to be down (buellforums.com); sadly not many 'harley' enthusiasts want to help a 'lowly buell owner' as myself (on harley forums) despite that 65% of my powertrain components are shared with their 'rumblers'...it's the shared sump that throws them off & many I ask in person who own Sportsters (which also have a shared sump) just simply use the 'highly recommended' Harley branded products...not a bad thing, but I want to save money or get a higher quality product if I'm gonna be spending nearly the same amount of $$$

I guess the best thing to do for the 'shared sump' is use a high quality synthetic and go with an extended drain interval (the left side footpeg frame covers the sump cover, hence a major labor to get to it) and just use an excellent conventional in the engine and shorten the interval by 1500 or 2000 miles; the buell blast is a quirky bike, but it is all I can afford due to budget/credit constraints

 

[Robenstein]

Sportsters do not have a shared sump like other bikes. They have oil for the engine, and the shared sump is for the primary and transmission. Where as my Triumph has one oil for everything.

SJ oil is just fine for your Buell

 

[kmrcstintn]

thank you for confirming SJ as wet clutch compatible; when I stated 'shared sump' I meant as a shared for tranny & chaincase, not to include engine oil; thanks

I'm gonna use my stash of Syn 3 for the tranny/chaincase & the conventional maxima & valvoline oil I have on hand for the next few engine oil changes

 

[Robenstein]

Anything that has a JASO MA rating on it will be wet clutch friendly as far as motorcycle oils go. If you want really good and cheap oil for the engine, the Valvoline VR1 20w50 hi performance car motor oil has proven itself in the Harley Twin Cam motors and actually seems to do better than Syn 3.

 

[Ken2]

Quote:
SJ as wet clutch compatible
Not necessarily. SJ (or S-anything) refers to engines, not clutches. Many or most will work fine in the wet clutch, but the two do not relate.

 

[kmrcstintn]

thank you Ken2 for the clarification; lately I've seen many JASO-MA rated oils concurrently rated with SJ, hence the confusion

 

[widman]

Car engine oils and motorcycle oils are different things. If you were comparing a CI-4 or something diesel, you'd be closer, but these days just look for MA2 on the label. With the huge improvements made for the MA2 oils for to protect clutches and engines, I wouldn't touch any oil that doesn't say MA2 on it. Better yet if it is MA2 and SM.

 

[Robenstein]

Nothing wrong with simple Jaso MA rated oils. Many goldwing riders have tons and tons of miles on their clutches with lowly MA rated Rotella.....even before Shell had it JASO certified.

 

[ryanschillinger]

Get motorcycle oil. I once put auto 20/50 in an old goldwing I had after getting the heads rebuilt with the intention of saving a few bucks since I was going to drain it so quickly. I thought the clutch was toast when I rode it. Could barely find neutral, and clutch would slip after every rough shift. Drained the oil, refilled with MC oil, and all was fine. The 20/50 didn't say energy conserving, so I thought it would be OK.