Need help with Honda A/C please

[Jimmy9190]

This is about my girlfriend's (soon to be wife next month) 2003 Honda Accord EX, 2-door Coupe, 121,000 miles on it, automatic transmission, 4 cylinder 2.4 liter V-tec engine.

Last time she drove the car was this past Friday, she says the AC was working fine. The car sat in the garage all weekend, we drove my truck on Saturday and Sunday. Today she came home from work and said the AC had made a hissing noise and was not cold at all going to work or coming back home. I checked it out but I have little knowledge of AC systems. The AC compressor is not cycling. Both AC lines are warm to the touch. The compressor itself is very hot to the touch. The fan controls and vent/dash/defrost selectors all work OK, but the AC is not cooling.

I can not find any visible or physial evidence of any freon leaks. I can't see any evidence of leaks from the compressor either, but it is located way down on the bottom of the engine, hard to see anything under it. I think it might need a new compressor but I can't see how the compressor would just up and fail like that without any prior warning symptoms. I have no gauges for testing the AC system.

I am trying to Google search for info on this, but I would appreciate any help from Honda and/or AC guys here...Thanks.

 

[Quest]

tough call: 3 days ago it was working and now it wasn't?

2 possibilities observed: (a ) a ruptured condenser or receiver due to rock/stone on the road; or (b ) there's not enough refrigerant in the system (pass the lower pressure cutoff point) and for that the compressor simply refused to work.

Other than the usual checks RE: A/C compressor solenoid fuse check, the other thing is to press the low pressure recharge part (of the shrader valve) and see if it vents something (low pressure venting, with a strong hissing sound). If your fuse is good and the solenoid works (and you get hissing sound from your line), then most likely you just low on refrigerant. You can then either resort to getting a shop to recharge it for you, or get a small recharge kit with hose and recharge yourself (I'd go with pure refrigerant varieties and no oil or sealant). give it a small blast (to charge) while you have the engine idling, and if it is indeed low in refrigerant, you shall start detecting your compressor recycling.

don't do (1 ) tip the can upside down while charging for the liquid refrigerant would likely damage your compressor; or (2 )don't overcharge your system (by dumping the whole can) for if you do so during this time of the year, you are likely gonna overcharge your system to the point where it will stop working during the hottest summer heat (due to excessive pressure).


Good luck!

Q.

p.s. to properly diagnose a leak you need some UV dye based oil charge + UV light to check...you simply cannot do the eyeballing for small leaks.

 

[The Critic]

There is likely a leak somewhere. Your best option is to pay a shop an hour labor to evacuate the system, add a dye and find/correct the leak before recharging.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks for the help. I went out and vented the low side Schrader valve, nothing came out but air. I also unplugged the compressor cycling switch and jumped the two wires together but the compressor still would not run.

I agree there must be a leak somewhere. The compressor never gave any signs that it was failing. No noise or odd symptoms at all. There is a good garage right down the street from my house, I hope they will charge and do a leak check for a good price. Maybe I can also get them to tell me where the leak is, then take the car back home, fix it myself and get them to recharge it. Or just recharge it myself with a DIY can from the parts store. Whatever the problem is, it probably won't be cheap.

Before I take it to the shop though I may just remove the front fascia and check the condenser. I can't help but wonder if maybe a rock or something hit the condenser and damaged it. I read online about other Honda's that had that happen.

Thanks for the info and help on this.

 

[The Critic]

Some of the early 7th gen Accords (2003-04) have been known to eat A/C compressors.

 

[Chris142]

If it hissed I'm going to assume that it blew a hose or O-ring. Remove the low side charge port cap and press on the shrader valve to see if it's dead or not. If it is you need to pressurize it with nitrogen to find the leak.

 

[bigmike]

Not sure if this is the problem, but these Accords are notorious for taking a rock to the condenser. They leave the front bumper wide open. I ended up putting a grill over mine to prevent it.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Thanks. I checked under the front bumper last night, I looked at it for a long time with a good flashlight and did not see any damage to the condenser, but I guess it would not take much of an impact to cause a slow leak. I am going to put some screen in the lower air dam too, so we don't have a rock-hit-the-condenser problem later on. Seems to me if it had a slow leak we would have noticed the AC cooling less and getting worse over time. I also swapped the compressor relay and fan relay, still no AC. I don't drive her car very often.

I was checking the car last night, it had been sitting several hours and when I started it the radiator and condenser fans would not even turn on. There has to be a fault somewhere, either a leak or a bad compressor. The problem is I don't really know enough about it to test the compressor or make a good diagnosis. I am going to check the AC clutch tonight, jump 12 volts to it and see if the clutch will engage.

Last night I saw two very small drops of what looked like oil on the low side ac line, on either side of the schrader valve. I don't have any way to know but I wonder if there is a leak at that valve.

I called the garage down the street, they say it is probably just low on freon, says they see it all the time where the ac is cold one day and then hot or no ac at all the next, for no apparent reason. He said they see it a lot on cars that are over 7 or 8 years old. He said they can evacuate and re-charge it for $70.00 to $100.00 depending on how much freon it takes, and they also inject the dye so they can check it out if it leaks later on. I will have to take my gf to work tomorrow and then take the car to the shop. My truck is a manual and she can't drive it. She has expressed no interest in learning, either...

As much as I would like to fix the AC myself, I just don't have the tools or the complete knowledge for the job. I do appreciate all of your help on this.

 

[mechtech2]

OK... quickly going from good AC to none after hearing a hissing noise means a massive leak.

 

[bigmike]

I have the Grillcraft lower grill on our '09 Accord. Many people make their own and it's easy to do so. You can use hardware cloth, etc. Check some Honda boards for writeups.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Looks good, I will have to see what I can find for her car. I was thinking about this and if all the shop down the street will do is evacuate and recharge the AC, I am first going to try one of the AC recharge cans they sell at the parts store. I have read TallPaul's recent post about the recharge cans and I figure if it works, then I have saved some money. I am getting married next month and need to save as much money as I can right now. If the freon all leaks back out in a few days and the AC is hot again, then I will know the car has more serious problems. But if the shop down the street "sees this problem all the time" it sure can't hurt to give it a shot of freon myself first, and for a lot less money. I am going to try it this afternoon when gf gets home from work, it should be about 80 degrees, maybe a little higher and I hope to get the right dose of freon into the system.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
OK... quickly going from good AC to none after hearing a hissing noise means a massive leak.


Hissing noise = valve at test port gone bad or a rupture somewhere?

 

[Jimmy9190]

Gf said she heard a hissing noise. I heard no abnnormal noises, hissing or otherwise when I listened to her car Monday afternoon. I vented the low side AC port just for a second and heard a loud hissing noise like air escaping the schrader valve on a tire, and I felt a bit of oil spray out. I think that means there may be enough freon left in the system to get the compressor to run and the AC will take a charge from the DIY recharge can. I hope I am right. I am going to AAP to get the recharge kit after work and will see how it does when gf gets home from work a little later.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Well so far so good I guess. I bought a kit with 26 ounces of R134a, a 12 oz and 14 oz can. Hooked up the gauge/delivery hose valve gimmick to the low side port and the needle did not even move. It took all of the larger can to get the needle to move to around 20 psi. I added in the second can and it never would bring the needle to the psi for the 80 degree temperature range. I have no way of knowing exactly how much freon I pumped in, the spec on the deal under the hood by the high and low ports is 19.4 ounces, the guy at AAP said the cans never contain the exact amount it says on the can, the actual amount you can get out of a can will always be less than what the can says on its label. I also understand that Honda ac compressors have a relief valve that opens and dumps excess freon but even with that I am sure I added in too much r134a.

I have a thermometer on a long probe, it works very well for checking the vent temps. Here in my garage I had about 48 degrees at idle with the AC on max recirc, high fan speed. I went for a drive and when I got home it was cooling about 44 or 45 degrees at the center vent and the compressor was cycling on and off about every 30 to 45 seconds. After the test drive I had 40 psi on the low side port at idle with the AC on high and the thermometer in the garage right on 80 degrees. The instructions for the recharge kit say 40 psi is the normal acceptable psi at an 80 degree outside temp.

I believe I did this job correctly, even if I added a few extra ounces of r134a. The guy at AAP works there part time, on his day job he is a tech at the local Chevy dealership, seems to know what he is talking about, he is an older guy about my own age. He said you can add a few more ounces of freon and it won't hurt anything, any excess will blow out the relief valve. I guess I will have to wait for hotter weather to be 100% sure I did this job right.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Well I have a partial update. The recharge kit I bought was from InterDynamics, it had the 2 cans of freon, the gauge and a UV penlight all in one package. $49.95 at AAP, I had a $5.00 coopin, so it cost me $44.95. Only a few bucks more than the 18 ounce single can with a gauge.

I may have just gotten extremely lucky on this AC problem. InterDynamics has a very good tech support line, I just got off the phone with them and they told me that even though the cans may say they contain 12 ounces and 14 ounces, not all of the ounces in the can is refrigerant. The tech support guy said that each can contains 2 to 3 ounces of additives - the super cooling booster additive, flourescent green dye, etc. So if the Honda spec for freon is 19.4 ounces, and each can had an average of 2.5 ounces of additives, I can take the total 26 ounces indicated on the can, subtract half an ounce each because if what the AAP guy told me is true, the cans don't hold the exact amount stated on the label, so 25 total ounces in the cans, minus 5 ounces of additives = 20 ounces of freon, more or less. So now I believe I may have just .6 ounces more than the specified refrigerant amount in the system, which surely won't do any harm.

I had not taken into consideration the amount of chemicals or additives in the cans, but it makes perfect sense to me. The tech support guy said the additives should not cause any problems in the AC system. Now we just need to watch the car and see how the AC does over the next several days. If the AC stays cold, then it's OK. If it gets warm again, either there is a leak or too much total freon/adds in the AC system. I feel better about it now, and I believe the car will be fine. It was blowing ice cubes last night, that's for sure.

 

[bigmike]

Let us know how it goes!

 

[ltslimjim]

How often does the compressor kick on/off? What are the cycle times like during idle? It should probably be once every 15-25 seconds.

 

[beaker60]

Jimmy,,Arthur here,,now don't qoute me on this,,BUT,,,if your girlfriend heard the hissing,,I'm going to bet she has a leaking evaporator,,,ask her if she smelled anything strange when it started hissing.Most imports have very weak aluminum for the evaporators and after a time the aluminum gets brittle and will crack where they attach to the expansion valve or H-valve whichever that particular model uses,,but again,,,what the others have said,,I know money is tight,,but about the only way you're going to know for sure is to have the system evacuated and leak checked,,,also,,what someone else said if you heard the hissing,,,,it's a very large leak.

 

[Jimmy9190]

Well I have heard no hissing or abnormal sounds at all from the AC. The carpet is not wet under the HVAC box and there is no sound of water sloshing around, not that I have heard. There are no odd smells in the car either. The compressor probably is cycling every 20 to 25 seconds, the other night I was trying to time it while driving, which is not so easy to do. Gf said the AC was still blowing ice cold yesterday when she went to work and came home, she even had to turn down the thermostat because it was blowing so cold.

We need to drive the car for a week or so and see how the AC does. If it needs an evap or compressor, we will have to cross that bridge when we get to it.