Amsoil 0w-40/"AFF", 10k miles in 2002, Audi TT

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Buster,

ONLY the xw-20 and xw-30 grades have to meet the 800 ppm phosphorus limit for API/SM, "Certified For Gas Engine" oils. The 40wt and 50wt oils can use as ZDDP much as they want. Take a look at the Mobil 1, 15w-50 sometime and let me know what you find...;)

Amsoil could indeed license this formulation if they thought it was in their best interest.

TS
 
Buster I recenty asked the same question to a specialty MC oil blender, who bar graphs elevated zinc/phos on there web site, but labels the product SL. The answer I got back, FWIW:

"Our oils start out with the API SL additive system (the industry's latest and greatest) that was designed to meet and PASS API SL LICENSING requirements.

Thus, they meet all of the API SL quality standards. Then, we up-treat the ZDDP portion (anti-wear additive) significantly.

This would disqualify us for the API SL LICENSE (there is a ZDDP maximum limit)....but not lower the quality standard, so, we still meet the SL quality levels!

But, we are not API SL LICENSED. (We do not want to be)

API SG/SH are done and gone forever which is why the API will not even allow us to place SG,SH on any labels at all, licensed or not. We can put SL on there in the context we are using.

Yes, partly semantics. But not designed or used to fool or miss-lead you.

Here is the best part. Our oils are then sent for performance tests that are tougher than the API SL tests, the new JASO T-903 series of tests that add tougher shear stability and volatility tests and add the critical clutch stop time tests (like a slip test) to ensure the oil will not make your motorcycle clutch slip (API SL does not have these tests for obvious reasons) and also will hold up in your gearbox. And, the JASO MA license has no maximum ZDDP anti-wear additive level!

Bottom line: We make motorcycle specific formulations that are JASO T-903 tested and JASO MA licensed.....we were the first non-OEM in the USA to do this. And we guarantee that the oils marked with the JASO symbol pass the T-903 tests. But remember, these oils are not for use in your car."
 
Thanks Wiley. Oils such as Joe Gibb's, Redline, Liquid Cosworth etc. are all using a lot of ZDDP and Moly (900ppm). They aren't concerned about API obviously. Running these oils in modern passenger cars is a waste of money. The SM specs clearly have the right additive chemistry to handle today's modern engines. For track racing and different style engines, oils with significantly more Zinc and Phosphorus are more ideal, such as the Amsoil 0w-40 AFF.
 
Buster,

Go back and read my post...I think it's very clear.

If Mobil choose to reduce the ZDDP levels in their 0w-40 and 15w-50, it was simply to use the same chemistry as in their xw-30 grades. It makes sense from the point of reducing raw materials to use the same add pack for all your formulations.

For example, it looks like Amsoil now uses a variation of the same add pack in all their gas engine, passenger car oils; they use the same basic add pack in all their HD diesel oils; they use the same basic add pack in all their "Four Stroke" oils. So they have gotten down to variations of three basic additive chemistries with the oils they make.

This 0w-40 is intended for wet clutch applications, hence the high additive levels.

Ted
 
Ted, I always thought that SM applied to the 20/30wt grades only, but I wasn't 100% sure being M1 40wt/50wt now meet the SM spec. I guess it does make sense for them to be using one additive package across the board. They must feel confident in reducing the ZDDP levels, or made a 100% economical decision to go that route.
 
The 15w-50 also uses MoDTC and boron, so they haven't just reduced the # of ZDDP. It also uses a thicker basestock blend, which provides a lot of the wear protection. This is true of all 15w-50 and 20w-50 grades.

There is no reason why the 0w-40 needed particularly high additive levels to begin with. If you look at the new Amsoil 5w-40 European oil, it also uses very low additive levels:

P, 700 ppm
Zn, 800 ppm
Ca, 2000 ppm
Mg, 50 ppm
Boron, 50 ppm

These newest additive chemistries simply hold up better, so you're not going to see the additive "treat" levels you did in the past.

Ted
 
They hold up better for most engines, but it appears that ZDDP is still the choice among companines formulating racing oils. Of course that doesn't apply to 99% of us.
 
This was an interesting UOA. I'd like to see if it's really that shear stable.
 
Am I wrong but thus is a great report for 10,000 miles .I am not really familiar with Audi, but 1.8 liter pushing 225 hp is not a sissy motor. With $8.00 ish dollar per qt. oil I will take all the additives and the highest amount that I can get.
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I would guess the horsepower is enjoyed on occasion.
 
This is great and am glad AFF was experimented with !!!
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It's what's going into my NEW Polaris ATV after the Polaris 0w-40 gets run for 1 more OCI per Polaris. They even recommend the Amsoil AFF...

I'm in engineering and think about this stuff a lot, like why not run or mix in Motorcycle oil, Amsoil 4-Stroke Marine oil, etc. in a car...?

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Quote:


like why not run or mix in Motorcycle oil, Amsoil 4-Stroke Marine oil, etc. in a car...?




You could, and would be running something like Redline, that has no VII's and is very shear stable. Do the MC oils contain FM's?
 
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