0W20 M1 AFE vs 0W20 Toyota synthetic?

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Toyota/Lexus 4.6L V8

The owner's manual calls for 5W-20 or 0W-20 but I want to use the latter.

How does M1 0W-20 AFE stack up against the factory Toyota full-synthetic 0W-20?

Oil cost and warranty aren't part of the picture, I just want the highest quality oil that offers the best protection, especially for cold winter starts. Max OCI will be 6k miles.


Thanks
smile.gif
 
CATERHAM has done the footwork (or email work as the case may be) and confirmed with Toyota Canada that the CURRENT formula 0w20 in Canada is made by Mobil to Toyota specs (i.e. it's NOT Mobil 1 0w20 in a Toyota bottle - it's a specific formula that Toyota asked for (high moly, high VI etc.). He had also confirmed that the PREVIOUS version of the 0w20 was made by Eneos.

As for the 5w30 - I don't think anyone has done the research as CATERHAM did for the 0w20, so it's up for debate as to who makes it

P.S> This was found on another post here and recopied for you. From 9/2010
 
Originally Posted By: Topo
CATERHAM has done the footwork (or email work as the case may be) and confirmed with Toyota Canada that the CURRENT formula 0w20 in Canada is made by Mobil to Toyota specs (i.e. it's NOT Mobil 1 0w20 in a Toyota bottle - it's a specific formula that Toyota asked for (high moly, high VI etc.). He had also confirmed that the PREVIOUS version of the 0w20 was made by Eneos.

As for the 5w30 - I don't think anyone has done the research as CATERHAM did for the 0w20, so it's up for debate as to who makes it

P.S> This was found on another post here and recopied for you. From 9/2010

CATERHAM is the 0w20 oil guru.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The two oils were compared here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409119&page=4

They're both high quality oils made by XOM.
In Canada the Toyota oil half the price of M1.


Thanks - I knew that you would know
smile.gif


Maybe I will mix the two 50/50...seriously! The M1's low MRV really appeals to me but if the Toyota oil is higher in moly I don't want to miss out on the benefits.
 
M1 AFE handles extreme temperatures better. Severe cold/hot. It's most likely a blend of Group III+, PAO, AN and POE.

The Toyota oil is the lightest PCMO on the market and is designed for maximum fuel economy. Most likely a Group III and comparable to other Group III synthetics- PP/Mobil Super/QS....
 
The M1 0W20 is said to have a better" MRV at low temperatures. Temperatures that most will never experience. It's doubtful that it handles extreme hot temeratures any better than the Toyota 0W20. More opinion than fact. So's the speculation on
the M1 AFE formulation. For all we know, the Toyota 0W20 is also a blend of Group III+. PAO, AN, and POE.

We do know the Toyota is MUCH lighter on start-up and at 0C (32F).
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
The M1 0W20 is said to have a better" MRV at low temperatures. Temperatures that most will never experience. It's doubtful that it handles extreme hot temeratures any better than the Toyota 0W20. More opinion than fact. So's the speculation on
the M1 AFE formulation. For all we know, the Toyota 0W20 is also a blend of Group III+. PAO, AN, and POE.

We do know the Toyota is MUCH lighter on start-up and at 0C (32F).

I can believe the argument that M1 may have a edge on extreme temperature. most reading i got say the Toyota 0w20 (and Honda 0w20 include Canadian version) are group III. M1 AFE 0w20, likely PAO, I recall may reading that AFE 0w20 was the same formula of beloved M1 original 0w20, it was the time when M1 was still using "square" type jug and 5w30 are mostly agreed to be PAO based
27.gif
.
 
Originally Posted By: spock1
Originally Posted By: Topo
CATERHAM has done the footwork (or email work as the case may be) and confirmed with Toyota Canada that the CURRENT formula 0w20 in Canada is made by Mobil to Toyota specs (i.e. it's NOT Mobil 1 0w20 in a Toyota bottle - it's a specific formula that Toyota asked for (high moly, high VI etc.). He had also confirmed that the PREVIOUS version of the 0w20 was made by Eneos.

As for the 5w30 - I don't think anyone has done the research as CATERHAM did for the 0w20, so it's up for debate as to who makes it

P.S> This was found on another post here and recopied for you. From 9/2010

CATERHAM is the 0w20 oil guru.

+1
 
They're both great oils and while it is purely speculation, if you ran both through the SeqIIIG, TEOST tests you would see where they differ. However, those tests are extreme. My. 02.
 
They would both more than likely do just fine in the SeqIII G with Toyota's 0W20 maintaining it's significant edge at all start-ups and temps down to about -20F.
 
Since XM makes the Toyota oil I doubt that they would produce an oil for Toyota to be superior to their flagship oil, M1. IMHO
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
Since XM makes the Toyota oil I doubt that they would produce an oil for Toyota to be superior to their flagship oil, M1. IMHO


Agree. The Mobil 1 0w20 has the high temp performance of the EP line. It's most likely superior to the Toyota oil in high temps.

The Toyota 0w20 is great, but it's designed to be the lightest oil on the market for max fuel economy. Does not meet ACEA-08 specs or GM4718M.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: tig1
Since XM makes the Toyota oil I doubt that they would produce an oil for Toyota to be superior to their flagship oil, M1. IMHO


Agree. The Mobil 1 0w20 has the high temp performance of the EP line. It's most likely superior to the Toyota oil in high temps.

The Toyota 0w20 is great, but it's designed to be the lightest oil on the market for max fuel economy. Does not meet ACEA-08 specs or GM4718M.


Again, more speculation--based on no real information...

How do you know it doesn't meet the GM spec? And can you name a single other OEM oil which publishes that it meets the specs of another manufacturer? Of course they aren't going to publish that it meets GM specs, or pay for the testing.

As far as the ACEA 08 spec, of course it doesn't meet it, nor does M10W20. They're both thinner than the 2.9 hths requirement--but I don't really see the relevance?

I also don't get why people would assume that M1 wouldn't make a "better" oil on contract. There are a lot of competing demands when formulating an oil, price and margin being a major consideration. It wouldn't surprise me at a if the Toyota product were a more expensive to produce, lower margin oil. Toyota's in the business of selling cars, XOM is in the business of selling oil. I think some folk's slavish devotion to a brand name seems to color their judgement.
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy

I can believe the argument that M1 may have a edge on extreme temperature. most reading i got say the Toyota 0w20 (and Honda 0w20 include Canadian version) are group III. M1 AFE 0w20, likely PAO, I recall may reading that AFE 0w20 was the same formula of beloved M1 original 0w20, it was the time when M1 was still using "square" type jug and 5w30 are mostly agreed to be PAO based
27.gif
.


Not to pick on your post specifically, but there seems to be a lot of the word I've bolded/italicized and underlined above, when it comes to exactly what M1 0w20 is.

When someone has definite PROOF that M1 is PAO and Toyota is not, then a proper comparison of the two oils can be made.
 
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I agree that we can not truly determine what is better but I stand by myopinions. Also, M1 0w20 does meet ACEA A1/B1-08.

So where is your proof the Toyota oil is better? And don't make the mistake of singling out the viscosity index.
 
Originally Posted By: ringmaster
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
The two oils were compared here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2409119&page=4

They're both high quality oils made by XOM.
In Canada the Toyota oil half the price of M1.


Thanks - I knew that you would know
smile.gif


Maybe I will mix the two 50/50...seriously! The M1's low MRV really appeals to me but if the Toyota oil is higher in moly I don't want to miss out on the benefits.

Yes M1 0W-20 has a very low MRV but the MRV of M1 0W-40 (31,000cP) is not so great and we have an number of Cdn made 0W-30 and 0W-40 oils that are better such as the PAO based XD-3 0W-30 (MRV 14,900, HTHS 3.5cP).

So you've got a number of competing factors here.
If you're trying to make the lowest MRV 0W-30 I wouldn't be using M1 0W-40.
 
I'd assume the Toyota 0w20 is similar to Mobil Super 0w20, not AFE. I could be wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I'd assume the Toyota 0w20 is similar to Mobil Super 0w20, not AFE. I could be wrong.

This oil is not a high VI oil like the Toyota product.
In fact it's viscosity spec's are much the same a M1 AFE 0W-20 with the exception of it's much higher MRV at 26,800cP. Don't know it's HTHSV but I suspect it is probabily 2.6cP.
 
Originally Posted By: rcy
Originally Posted By: gogozy

I can believe the argument that M1 may have a edge on extreme temperature. most reading i got say the Toyota 0w20 (and Honda 0w20 include Canadian version) are group III. M1 AFE 0w20, likely PAO, I recall may reading that AFE 0w20 was the same formula of beloved M1 original 0w20, it was the time when M1 was still using "square" type jug and 5w30 are mostly agreed to be PAO based
27.gif
.


Not to pick on your post specifically, but there seems to be a lot of the word I've bolded/italicized and underlined above, when it comes to exactly what M1 0w20 is.

When someone has definite PROOF that M1 is PAO and Toyota is not, then a proper comparison of the two oils can be made.

Hi rcy:
no problem! I actually appreciate you note it, and I agree. these information on the internet, and reader need to be aware of such when information are passing around. even I "believe" PAO was used, I constantly remind myself to use these word unless I had proof and back these fact up. the word "believe" is like "exceed" "recommend" and they are not "approved"!!
 
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