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Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? #2547304
02/24/12 06:10 PM
02/24/12 06:10 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Need some advice here. Transmission in question is the Getrag 6 speed in the 2011 Ford Mustang.
The Motorcraft fluid is nearly $30 a quart. I can get Honda MTF for $7 or less.

However my main worry is some kind of damage that would void my warranty. I don't see any incompatibility issue from these numbers, but maybe you can?

I'm reposting INDYMAC's data on the Honda fluid since I don't have a report myself, originally posted here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1971039&page=1

Compare:
HONDA MTF

Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 0
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Moly 0
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 0
Silicon 5
Sodium 0
Calcium 3042
Magnesium 0
Phosphorus 1168
Zinc 1329
Barium 0

SUS visc at 210F 50.8
cSt visc at 100C 7.5
Flashpoint 380F
Water 0%
Insolubles 0%
TAN 3.7

Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC
AS PER MY SAMPLE SENT TO BLACKSTONE

Aluminum 0
Chromium 0
Iron 0
Copper 0
Lead 0
Tin 0
Molybdenum 4
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 0
Boron 4
Silicon 10
Sodium 8
Calcium 4342
Magnesium 30
Phosphorus 1492
Zinc 1308
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F 46.8
cSt Viscosity @100C 6.28
Flashpoint in F 405

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2547677
02/25/12 12:43 AM
02/25/12 12:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 665
Lynchburg, Va
JasonC Offline
JasonC  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 665
Lynchburg, Va
I would stick with Motorcraft as there are no approved replacements. My 2012 Mustang GT shifts just fine and Ive driven in 25 degree weather with no problems shifting.


2012 Buick Verano 2.4
2006 Ford Mustang GT Convertible
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2547851
02/25/12 09:28 AM
02/25/12 09:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Did your car come from the factory with the QDC fluid or did you get it changed under the "cold shift problem" TSB that came out?

See, I have one of the first 2011's that actually shipped from the factory with the Motorcraft MTF, which is a 80w/90 fluid. It never downshifted properly and was very difficult to shift cold.

However, I can't get the car to act up when the dealership looks at it so I can't get the fluid swap for free as per the Ford TSB.

Last edited by Funster226; 02/25/12 09:29 AM.
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2548039
02/25/12 01:23 PM
02/25/12 01:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Well, I just changed over. We'll see how it shifts.

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2548470
02/25/12 09:01 PM
02/25/12 09:01 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Well, I just came back from a trip around town. The MC fluid was terribly rough at first but smoothed out. I'm not sure if that's because it was so cold (23F) or because I just changed it. By the time I got home the shifting was nearly as good as the Honda fluid and head and shoulders above the factory fill.

I saved the Honda fluid, it was run for a few thousand miles, and maybe I'll send it off for analysis. The shift quality was literally butter smooth on the Honda fluid on all but the coldest mornings. But I'm worried about some kind of incompatibility on the organics. I've been told that this tranny uses paper blocker rings instead of carbon.

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2548676
02/25/12 11:41 PM
02/25/12 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 665
Lynchburg, Va
JasonC Offline
JasonC  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 665
Lynchburg, Va
My car was built in Oct. 11 so I am assuming it has the new fluid Ford is specing. Either way it shifts pretty smooth.


2012 Buick Verano 2.4
2006 Ford Mustang GT Convertible
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: JasonC] #2548763
02/26/12 04:28 AM
02/26/12 04:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 169
Gonzales, La.
SwampDweller Offline
SwampDweller  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 169
Gonzales, La.
I replaced the FF in my 2012 Mustang with Redline MTL. After reading this forum for a while and trying to digest as much as I could, I found that the Redline MTL was in between the FF and QDC in viscosity. Mine has shifted fine before and after, no difference.

I changed it , as I do on all my manual trans and rear gears, after a short run( maybe initial 5000mi) to clean out the wear in [censored].

Where does the Honda fluid fit in terms of viscosity?


From the Swamp, Lenny

16 F150 XLT 5.0 Super Crew
16 Ford Fusion SE 1.5 Turbo

14 Hustler ZTR 54 Super Duty 23/Kawasaki
Generac 20 KW 999V twin
15 Mercury 50 HP 4 Stroke
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2548767
02/26/12 05:23 AM
02/26/12 05:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
I tried MTL and didnt like it. It felt "sticky" when hot.

The Honda fluid is only slightly heavier than the light ford fluid. The specific viscocities are listed in my charts above.

I don't remember what the viscosity of MTL is, but it's heavier than the Honda MTF.

Last edited by Funster226; 02/26/12 05:27 AM.
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2548930
02/26/12 10:27 AM
02/26/12 10:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,338
Magnolia, TX
INDYMAC Offline
INDYMAC  Offline

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,338
Magnolia, TX
Here are some more Kv at 100C and TAN #'s taken from VOA's:

Honda MTF II 7.5 cSt/3.7 TAN
Amsoil MTF 9.3/2.38
BG Synchroshift 8.3/2.95
BMW MTF-LT2 7.5/0.68
BMW MTF-LT3 6.1/0.70
Elf Tranself TRJ 8.6/3.68
Ford Synthetic MTF 14.5/3.33
GMSM non-FM 9.2/3.94
Redline MTL 10.1/5.42


2013 Toyota Tundra DC 4X4 5.7L FFV
2012 Toyota 4Runner 2WD SR5
2004 Honda S2000
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: INDYMAC] #2549182
02/26/12 02:11 PM
02/26/12 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 228
New Mexico
zmelli Offline
zmelli  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 228
New Mexico
The Honda is designed for use with the carbon synchronizers.


06 Acura TSX 6-Speed/GC 0W40/OEM Acura Filters
91 Honda Accord/Castrol 0W40/Micro T7316
93 Honda Accord 0W-40Edge/Micro T7316
96 Acura Integra SE

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: zmelli] #2549230
02/26/12 03:09 PM
02/26/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
That's what I'm afraid of.

Drove a bunch of errands today. Had a slight 1-2 shift "nibble" out of the driveway but after warmed I was shifting with two fingers.

Guess I'll leave the ford stuff in for now. Hopefully I won't get the "gear whine" I've heard about after switching to the light stuff.

I also saw a rumor on another forum that there might be yet another transmission TSB released Tuesday for these cars. Here's hoping. I love my car, but it's no fun when your shifter feels like stirring coal.

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2549420
02/26/12 06:39 PM
02/26/12 06:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 169
Gonzales, La.
SwampDweller Offline
SwampDweller  Offline

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 169
Gonzales, La.
Funster, just to clear things a bit. A little nibble when cold is NOT the same as shifting a bucket of coal. Mine has a little nibble here and there when cold, it is normal. I think every manual tranny I have ever driven has that. Don't try to fix the things that are normal....you can't.

I would be more concerned about the fluid being too thin and having gear whine instead. That said, it is probably fine with what you have in there now.


From the Swamp, Lenny

16 F150 XLT 5.0 Super Crew
16 Ford Fusion SE 1.5 Turbo

14 Hustler ZTR 54 Super Duty 23/Kawasaki
Generac 20 KW 999V twin
15 Mercury 50 HP 4 Stroke
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: SwampDweller] #2549463
02/26/12 07:18 PM
02/26/12 07:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Funster226 Offline OP
Funster226  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
Indiana
Originally Posted By: SwampDweller
Funster, just to clear things a bit. A little nibble when cold is NOT the same as shifting a bucket of coal. Mine has a little nibble here and there when cold, it is normal. I think every manual tranny I have ever driven has that. Don't try to fix the things that are normal....you can't.

I would be more concerned about the fluid being too thin and having gear whine instead. That said, it is probably fine with what you have in there now.


Good advice. The coal comment was more about the factory fill of QS. Below 50F you flat couldn't change gears.

As far as being too thin, thats one of the points of my post. The QDC is an approved Ford fix for the bad shifting, but it's awfully thin.

Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: Funster226] #2549619
02/26/12 09:46 PM
02/26/12 09:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,009
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
Global Moderator
MolaKule  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,009
Iowegia - USA
I would stick with the Ford MT fluid for at least 500 miles. It takes about that many miles for a new fill to get into the synchro assembly.

The AW package is fine.

Some people have done well with a 50/50 mix of the Redline MTL 70W80 and Dexron VI.


Science is about objective reality, not consensus.
Re: Honda MTF vs Motorcraft FML-XT-11-QDC? [Re: zmelli] #2549788
02/27/12 12:59 AM
02/27/12 12:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Southeast Texas
IcebergS2000 Offline
IcebergS2000  Offline

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Southeast Texas
Originally Posted By: zmelli
The Honda is designed for use with the carbon synchronizers.
But it is still recommended for their cars that have yellow metal synchros.


The value of life can be measured by how many times your soul has been deeply stirred Soichiro Honda
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