Euro spec oils vs North American

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I read somewhere on the internet that Euro spec oils were designed for engine performance, protection, and longevity where as American spec oils were only concerned about energy conservation or gas mileage. Is there any truth to this? I'm not sure about Japanese oils, but I love Yamalube!
 
Sounds like you've heard yet another case of people turning shades of grey into black and white.
wink.gif


The Euro specs that get a lot of attention on the Internet do seem to put more emphasis on performance under high temp, high stress conditions. Most American and Japanese oil specs tend to be milder and focused more on emissions and fuel economy. But Euro brands do care about fuel economy, just as American and Japanese brands care about longevity and performance. This is about more vs. less, not all-or-nothing.

Keep in mind the cars' target audiences. Most of the European cars we see are German and built for high performance. Most of the American and Japanese cars we see are designed for people who just want to dawdle to work and back. The cars and the oil specs are designed accordingly.

And, of course, there are exceptions. Honda's HTO-06 spec is one of the toughest around, at least in terms of high temp deposit prevention. GM's long-drain specs are fairly serious, as well.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Originally Posted By: magicbeers
I read somewhere on the internet that Euro spec oils were designed for engine performance, protection, and longevity where as American spec oils were only concerned about energy conservation or gas mileage. Is there any truth to this? I'm not sure about Japanese oils, but I love Yamalube!


Not Necessarily. the newer EURO standards are more concerned about energy conservation, emissions, etc.

Within the ACEA standards, some standards within, say the A & B (light duty gas & diesel), some of them have HTHS comparable to API, while some are higher than API.

So, it really depends on the actual specification you're comparing to
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Sounds like you've heard yet another case of people turning shades of grey into black and white.
wink.gif


The Euro specs that get a lot of attention on the Internet do seem to put more emphasis on performance under high temp, high stress conditions. Most American and Japanese oil specs tend to be milder and focused more on emissions and fuel economy. But Euro brands do care about fuel economy, just as American and Japanese brands care about longevity and performance. This is about more vs. less, not all-or-nothing.

Keep in mind the cars' target audiences. Most of the European cars we see are German and built for high performance. Most of the American and Japanese cars we see are designed for people who just want to dawdle to work and back. The cars and the oil specs are designed accordingly.

And, of course, there are exceptions. Honda's HTO-06 spec is one of the toughest around, at least in terms of high temp deposit prevention. GM's long-drain specs are fairly serious, as well.

Hope that makes sense.


Big brush indeed. That statement is reserved for European maintenance as it tends to be far less stringent than the oil changing happy North Americans (and Japanese actually).
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
One also must remember that European drain intervals would make even some of the long drain proponents here blush.


Not uncommon for the european folks to go 12-15K. I don't blame them for cost of oil over there. It's truly liquid gold. Had a friend of mine come over from the Netherlands. We removed the oil pan, tightened up the oil pan bolts....when we went to change oil filter/add oil, he overfilled it and freaked out! He freaked out over a 1/2 a quart, telling me he was so sorry, and asked if I wanted him to drain it down to put back in my quart!!!! WOW!
 
Originally Posted By: mcallister
Not uncommon for the european folks to go 12-15K.


Heck, even my old 1991 Audi 200 Turbo had a 12,500 km OCI. The guy who has it now thinks that's nuts.
wink.gif
 
ok, our peugeot 1.6 has a 30000 km/18000mi oci, or one year. No one questions that and if someone are a few months late, no questions asked. I read bitog and do some extra changes when new just to calm my senses, but really not necessary.
But look at the lubrizol performance charts; check api sm and the just about any euro spec and you will probably see a bigger performance area, a lot bigger.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: lars11
ok, our peugeot 1.6 has a 30000 km/18000mi oci, or one year. No one questions that and if someone are a few months late, no questions asked. I read bitog and do some extra changes when new just to calm my senses, but really not necessary.
But look at the lubrizol performance charts; check api sm and the just about any euro spec and you will probably see a bigger performance area, a lot bigger.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html


In the U.S. we're limited in base oil types. It shouldn't matter I know as 229.50 is the same worldwide, but in the U.S. there is a dearth of PAO/Gr5 oils with OEM approvals.
 
lars11 is right. According to the lubrizol spider chart tool he cited the URL for 2 posts above, THE toughest standard for wear and deposits together is the Porsche C30 (same as VW 504/507), so any oil meeting that must be a synthetic of the best kind. I'm considering using Pennzoil Ultra Euro L 5w-30, as it should be closely related to the Ferrari factory fill and Helio Castroneves indycar race oil, and of course carries the VW 504/507 Porsche C30 spec.
 
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?
 
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?



Yes, the oil currently used by Ferrari meets VW 502 specs.
Tha is to say : The VW spec that is closest to meeting Ferrari specs (whatever that is) is VW 502.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?



Yes


Last I heard, Ferrari doesn't reference any manufacturers' specs. They just say "our factory fill and sole recommendation is Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40."

Which is not a Euro 4 oil, strangely.
 
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?



Yes, the oil currently used by Ferrari meets VW 502 specs.
Tha is to say : The VW spec that is closest to meeting Ferrari specs (whatever that is) is VW 502.

An Olympic athlete can probably do 10 pushups. Does that mean doing 10 pushups "is the closest to meeting Olympic specs (whatever those are)?"

The fact that Ferrari's oil meets VW 502 in no way implies that VW 502 approximates Ferrari's spec. All it means is that the oil was formulated to meet both specs.
 
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?



Yes


Last I heard, Ferrari doesn't reference any manufacturers' specs. They just say "our factory fill and sole recommendation is Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40."

Yup. And Helix Ultra 5w-40 meets MB 229.5 spec as well, which is a more stringent spec than VW 502.00, so how can one say that Ferrari spec is closest to VW 502.00 spec? There just isn't enough data here to conclude this.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: felixthecat
.....factory Ferrari fill is VW 502.


So Ferrari uses another manufacturer's spec? And does so currently in cars that are supposed to be following Euro 4 oil requirements, using a Euro 3 oil?



Yes, the oil currently used by Ferrari meets VW 502 specs.
Tha is to say : The VW spec that is closest to meeting Ferrari specs (whatever that is) is VW 502.

An Olympic athlete can probably do 10 pushups. Does that mean doing 10 pushups "is the closest to meeting Olympic specs (whatever those are)?"

The fact that Ferrari's oil meets VW 502 in no way implies that VW 502 approximates Ferrari's spec. All it means is that the oil was formulated to meet both specs.





If one person can do one push up and another person 10, then yes, the person that can do 10 pushups is likely closest to meeting Olympic specs (assuming that more pushups is good).

Maybe we should tell Ferrari to use VW 504/507 oils.
I realize VW 502 specs have a norrow scope, but it does not change the fact that it is the VW spec that is "more like" Ferrari,BMW LL01 and MB 229.5 specs.
 
Originally Posted By: felixthecat

Maybe we should tell Ferrari to use VW 504/507 oils.
I realize VW 502 specs have a norrow scope, but it does not change the fact that it is the VW spec that is "more like" Ferrari,BMW LL01 and MB 229.5 specs.


Or maybe we should figure out how (legally) and why Ferrari is still using that oil, which is the more interesting question.
 
Ferrari factory fill in the United States is Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40, which also meets all the tougest European specs like VW 504/507, Porsche C30, and Mercedes. and Helio Castroneves uses it in his indycar race cars off-the-shelf. Also, Lubrizol engineers say the VW 504/507 has the best "wear" specs.
 
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