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#2451911 - 12/03/11 12:16 PM Understanding VW oil specifications
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13040
Loc: Chicago, IL
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.
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#2451936 - 12/03/11 12:59 PM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33254
Loc: Great Lakes
I suspect the difference between VW 504 and VW 502 is similar to the difference between BMW LL04 and BMW LL01. The first one (504, LL04) is typically a mid/low-SAPs oil (for aftertreatment compatibility) which is incapable of extended drains when gasoline quality is sub-par, like is the case in the US where our gasoline isn't ultra low sulfur.

That is why something like LL04 superseded LL01 in Europe, but it did not supersed it in the US.

This thread has some additional discussion on the subject:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1923428#Post1923428
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#2452315 - 12/03/11 09:19 PM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
glxpassat Offline


Registered: 02/08/04
Posts: 1107
Loc: Huntsville, AL
Since 504 meets higher specs than 502, a lot of cars don't need it. Anybody could use it, but it costs more and 502 is fine for most.

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#2452602 - 12/04/11 09:10 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: Quattro Pete]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I suspect the difference between VW 504 and VW 502 is similar to the difference between BMW LL04 and BMW LL01. The first one (504, LL04) is typically a mid/low-SAPs oil (for aftertreatment compatibility) which is incapable of extended drains when gasoline quality is sub-par, like is the case in the US where our gasoline isn't ultra low sulfur.

That is why something like LL04 superseded LL01 in Europe, but it did not supersed it in the US.

This thread has some additional discussion on the subject:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1923428#Post1923428


the exhaust aftertreatments is more for the diesel side of things, 507 vs 505/506, but it is basically the same as 504

back to 504 vs 502.... of course, it's restricted to 5w30 only AND the starting tBN is also a lot lower, something to consider vs 502, and the sulfur in the fuel

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#2452726 - 12/04/11 11:21 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
rg200amp Offline


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 3130
Loc: Phila,PA
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread


approved
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#2453495 - 12/05/11 06:15 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: rg200amp]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread


approved


Ironically, 505.01 is not an acceptable oil for the PD engines with fixed OCI's. This was the recommended oil for north america AND led to premature wear on the camshafts which drove the PD injectors. HDEO is a better choice

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#2453559 - 12/05/11 08:16 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: rg200amp]
dparm Offline


Registered: 04/19/10
Posts: 13040
Loc: Chicago, IL
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread


approved



Yes, thank you.

I am merely interested in understanding all the different oil specs. I'm fairly comfortable with selecting oils for my own motor.
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#2453607 - 12/05/11 09:02 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: NJ
http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php -- it's basically correct in the short story.

502.00 was originally a mid-SAPS oil that was restricted to primarily 5w40 (with some 0w40 in there) weights only.

the revision to 502.00 opened up the multi-viscosity ranges AND allowed Low-SAPS to join the mix & overlapped 505.01 requirements also. Prior to that, 505.01 was its own oil (ie Castrol TXT 505.01)

when the C5 RS6 was available for the US market around 2004, technically, required 505.01 with ridiculously short OCI

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#2453615 - 12/05/11 09:08 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: UG_Passat]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33254
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
502.00 was originally a mid-SAPS oil that was restricted to primarily 5w40 (with some 0w40 in there) weights only.

Interesting. What is the source of this info?

I thought the concept of mid-SAPs oils didn't even exist back in 1997 when the 502.00 spec was created...
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'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2453677 - 12/05/11 10:30 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: NJ
vw502.00 was revised early 2000's before the 2005 revision

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#2453727 - 12/05/11 11:47 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 33254
Loc: Great Lakes
Thanks, but you didn't answer my question. smile
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'02 530i (Edge HM 10W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)

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#2454157 - 12/05/11 07:25 PM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1484
Loc: NJ
vw 502.00 specifications have a tendency to align with acea a3/b4 requirements

vw 502.00/505.00 (back when I had a 02 tdi), the appropriate acea a3/b4 revision was 1998 year which was mid-saps

acea a3/b4 with the 2004 revision introduced low-saps

1996 was probably high saps

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#2458582 - 12/10/11 07:46 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: UG_Passat]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 3065
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: dparm
Can someone please verify this website is correct?

http://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php


It's actually saying that 504 superseded 503.01, the old "high performance" oil spec. The way I understand it is that 504 oils can be used on anything that calls for 502, but not the other way around. 504 does not technically "supersede" 502 but rather "supplements" it. The Lubrizol graphing tool shows 504 being stricter than 502 (and also placing emphasis on fuel economy).

Lubrizol's site actually shows that 502 was revised in 2005, wheres 504 was revised in 2004. VAG is still selling cars that call for VW 502 oil, like the new S4.


Whatever your VW/Audi calls for = what you should use.

/thread


approved


Ironically, 505.01 is not an acceptable oil for the PD engines with fixed OCI's. This was the recommended oil for north america AND led to premature wear on the camshafts which drove the PD injectors. HDEO is a better choice


Except for the PDs that used 505.01 only and didn't fail, the ones that used 505.01 only and did fail, the ones that used HDEO 5w40 only and didn't fail, and the ones that used HDEO 5w40 only and did fail.
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2003 VW Jetta TDI (Sold) / 2015 VW GTI 2.0T

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#2465320 - 12/17/11 10:01 AM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: dparm]
pavelow Offline


Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 558
Loc: Orange Park, FL
VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol
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#2465491 - 12/17/11 01:09 PM Re: Understanding VW oil specifications [Re: pavelow]
91344George Offline


Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 1082
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: pavelow
VW/Audi and their oil specs are ridiculous to say the least, but if you own one of these cars, they are a necessary evil you have to deal with. In this day and age it seems almost snobbish to have them. lol


The reason they need them, especially in the US, is because of the generally lower quality of most oils.

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