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#2463028 - 12/15/11 12:39 AM Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN
The Critic Online   crying


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 18905
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Let's discuss.

Which one is better and why. Let's lay out all of the facts, opinions and experiences.
_________________________
11 Prius, 135k, M1 EP 0w20
07 Accord I4, 114k, M1 EP 0w20
10 Altima 3.5, 36k, M1 EP 5w30
92 Previa, 162k, Chevron 5w30

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#2463047 - 12/15/11 01:30 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
JOD Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 3209
Loc: PNW/WA
There's no "better", they're different.

M1 is thicker, both at start-up (in normal temps) and in operation. It has better pumpability at extremely cold temps. It's additive pack seems geared towards longer drains w/the higher Mg content.

Toyota is slightly thinner in operation, and much thinner at start-up (except in extreme cold). It seems to have demonstrated that it's robust enough for Toyota's 10K OCI's.

If I drove a ton of hwy miles and lived somewhere where it got really cold, I'd go with the M1. If I owned a hybrid and lived in Cali, I'd go with the Toyota. Personally, I do a fair number of short-ish (10-15 miles) trips, I'm not pushing my OCI's and my temps are mild, so I'd choose the Toyota (if I didn't have a stockpile of the Honda/Idemitsu 0W20).

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#2463051 - 12/15/11 01:53 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: JOD]
momo Offline


Registered: 03/19/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: JOD
There's no "better", they're different.

M1 is thicker, both at start-up (in normal temps) and in operation. It has better pumpability at extremely cold temps. It's additive pack seems geared towards longer drains w/the higher Mg content.

Toyota is slightly thinner in operation, and much thinner at start-up (except in extreme cold). It seems to have demonstrated that it's robust enough for Toyota's 10K OCI's.

If I drove a ton of hwy miles and lived somewhere where it got really cold, I'd go with the M1. If I owned a hybrid and lived in Cali, I'd go with the Toyota. Personally, I do a fair number of short-ish (10-15 miles) trips, I'm not pushing my OCI's and my temps are mild, so I'd choose the Toyota (if I didn't have a stockpile of the Honda/Idemitsu 0W20).


Could you please elaborate on (M1 is thicker) since they are the same grade.
_________________________
'50 Chevy Deluxe
'76 Cadillac Deville Coupe
'83 Toyota Cressida
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#2463089 - 12/15/11 05:15 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19519
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
The two main reasons I like the Toyota 0w20 over M1 is the fact that it's way thinner (about 25% thinner at 70 degrees I believe) and that it's way cheaper in price! (here it's $5.70 per liter, vs over $10 per liter for M1)

Toyota 0w20 also used to have way more moly and boron over M1, but with the SN formula change I believe both are pretty close in that regard now.
_________________________
2005 Corvette (M1 5w30 & Fram Ultra)
2006 Civic EX Coupe (M1 0w20 & M1 filter)
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive (M1 0w40 & Mann filter)

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#2463500 - 12/15/11 02:24 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 11679
Loc: Illinois
Since I have never used Toyota oil I can't judge it, however M1 0-20 is outstanding in every way in my Fords even for 10K OCIs. Also M1 0-20 is easy to find. I usually get it at WM for $5.50 a qt by the jug or on sale elsewhere.


Edited by tig1 (12/15/11 02:25 PM)
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 189,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
2007 Ford Focus 160,000 miles
M1 0-20 AFE
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE
MC filters


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#2463555 - 12/15/11 02:55 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2464138 - 12/16/11 03:16 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: CATERHAM]
The Critic Online   crying


Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 18905
Loc: Walnut Creek, CA
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


I had forgotten about that thread-- thanks!

Looks like Toyota 0W20 is significantly lighter under most normal conditions than Mobil 1 0W20.

Can you point me to the thread that discussed how you found out Toyota 0W20 is 25% lighter than M1 0w20 at 32F?


Edited by The Critic (12/16/11 03:17 AM)
_________________________
11 Prius, 135k, M1 EP 0w20
07 Accord I4, 114k, M1 EP 0w20
10 Altima 3.5, 36k, M1 EP 5w30
92 Previa, 162k, Chevron 5w30

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#2464149 - 12/16/11 04:38 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
Indydriver Offline


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 1528
Loc: Indiana
Based on the many discussions of the virtues of Toyota 0W-20, I stopped in a Toyota dealer yesterday to see if they would discount a case. This particular dealer had 40 qt bottles in stock and is discontinuing because they now use it often enough in their service dept that they are buying it in 55 GL drums. The kid at the parts counter said it was $7.xx something. I told him I'd go across the street and buy M1 at WM if that was their price but if they would discount it, I would buy some or all of the inventory. The kid said the manager might like that as they had their year end inventory coming up. He came back with a price he claimed was "wholesale" at $6.16. I told him to ask the manager if he would take $5/qt for the whole lot. The kid, staring at the computer, at first says, "that's below our cost!" I said, I doubt it. You should be making more than that. He double checks and starts to say, "your right, our cost is $4.xx" before catching himself and realizing he just told me something he shouldn't. So, he went to the manager with my $5 offer and the guy turned it down. So, I bought one case and left my phone number in case they changed their mind while doing their inventory. It is the SM oil.
_________________________
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS LS3 Vert 10,000 M1
2012 Sienna 50,000 TGMO
2011 Accord V6 50,000 TGMO
2007 Tahoe 90,000 M1
2004 Intrepid 105,000 M1 5W-30

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#2464228 - 12/16/11 08:00 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: Indydriver]
Boss302fan Offline


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 2252
Loc: Oconomowoc Wi
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
Based on the many discussions of the virtues of Toyota 0W-20, I stopped in a Toyota dealer yesterday to see if they would discount a case. This particular dealer had 40 qt bottles in stock and is discontinuing because they now use it often enough in their service dept that they are buying it in 55 GL drums. The kid at the parts counter said it was $7.xx something. I told him I'd go across the street and buy M1 at WM if that was their price but if they would discount it, I would buy some or all of the inventory. The kid said the manager might like that as they had their year end inventory coming up. He came back with a price he claimed was "wholesale" at $6.16. I told him to ask the manager if he would take $5/qt for the whole lot. The kid, staring at the computer, at first says, "that's below our cost!" I said, I doubt it. You should be making more than that. He double checks and starts to say, "your right, our cost is $4.xx" before catching himself and realizing he just told me something he shouldn't. So, he went to the manager with my $5 offer and the guy turned it down. So, I bought one case and left my phone number in case they changed their mind while doing their inventory. It is the SM oil.


Why would you pay $6.16 a quart for this oil, especially after the manager turned down the $5 a quart offer? I would have walked out and went across the street to Walmart and purchased M1... It would have been principle to me to not give them a sale.
_________________________
John P
Wisconsin
2006 Lexus LS 430
1990 Jaguar XJS V12
2011 Hyundai Santa Fe V6
Other fun cars

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#2464359 - 12/16/11 10:28 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: Boss302fan]
JOD Offline


Registered: 09/10/09
Posts: 3209
Loc: PNW/WA
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan

Why would you pay $6.16 a quart for this oil, especially after the manager turned down the $5 a quart offer? I would have walked out and went across the street to Walmart and purchased M1... It would have been principle to me to not give them a sale.


What "principle"? Isn't the dealer entitled to make money? Their cost is in the $4.XX range (I think it's around 4.80). Why would you think you had a "right" to buy it at your offered price? I don't get that. They made a reasonable deal. Maybe they'll want to cut a little deeper into their margin to move some old stock, but maybe not. I don't see any "principle" involved except negotiating a price. I've had paid $6.16 as well--it seems like a fair price to me. Not everyone has to make Walmart margins.

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#2464396 - 12/16/11 11:00 AM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: JOD]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
It's strange that their "cost" is that high.
The Canadian Toyota/Lexus dealers sell the same XOM made oil (imported from the States) for $25/5L jug, and that's before any negotiated discount. It's one of the few oil deals we get on imported oil. M1 0W-20 retails for $11.79/L.

Another option since it's provided to dealers in 55 gallon drums, is to see what sort of deal you can get on filling up some jugs of the oil from the drums?
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2464737 - 12/16/11 05:00 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: CATERHAM]
GoHeels1981 Offline


Registered: 03/20/04
Posts: 111
Loc: Richmond, VA
After looking at all the specs, and the fact that most of my vehicles are Honda I-4's I am leaning toward using either PU 0r M1 in the 5-30 flavor. The 5-30 flavor has much stronger specs.............5-20 may be as robust as 5-30 just not tested.

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#2464771 - 12/16/11 05:37 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: GoHeels1981]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 10133
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: GoHeels1981
After looking at all the specs, and the fact that most of my vehicles are Honda I-4's I am leaning toward using either PU 0r M1 in the 5-30 flavor. The 5-30 flavor has much stronger specs.............5-20 may be as robust as 5-30 just not tested.

I didn't know motor oil came in different "flavors".
So does 5W-30 have a stronger flavor than a 5W-20?
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa, 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S, TGMO 0W-20 25% / M1 0W-40 75%
96 BMW 328i, Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70% / M1 0W-40 30%
94 Caterham 7, FUCHS 0W-20

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#2464860 - 12/16/11 07:15 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: The Critic]
Gokhan Offline


Registered: 12/29/10
Posts: 2307
Loc: Los Angeles, California
(1) First of all Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (TGMO) is made by ExxonMobil.

(2) Second, Toyota makes sure that TGMO has the best possible additive package for Toyota engines, including a generous amount of antiwear additives ZDDP (P) and moly (Mo), and no large amounts of magnesium (Mg), which is potentially corrosive and increases wear.

(3) From the viscosity index, TGMO seems to have more Group IV (PAO) in it than Mobil 1, therefore possibly a "more synthetic" oil than Mobil 1 (TGMO having less Group III dino in the mix). This means lower NOACK, which implies less deposits, more high-temperature stability, and less oil consumption. Although, I should say that this last point is something that is inferred and there is no direct information on this.

One can also argue that the large amount of Mg in Mobil 1 can help extended drains by providing TBN retention, which is what the Mg is for. But then Mg is also potentially corrosive and increases wear. Therefore, Mg in Mobil 1 has mixed benefits and potential harms.

After what I discussed above, TGMO 0W-20 is a better oil than Mobil 1 0W-20 in my opinion. This is especially so if you own a Toyota. TGMO is also cheaper than Mobil 1, which is another benefit.

These are the current prices of TGMO 0W-20 at Toyota dealers:

00279-0WQTE-01 $5.32 - $7.25 per quart
00289-1QT0W-T1 $4.89 - $6.66 per quart, need to buy 12 (case)

The cost to dealers is slightly (about 18%) less than the first number. The second number is the Toyota suggested retail price. Therefore, if you get the TGMO 0W-20 for around $5 - 6, you have a great deal, knowing that you bought possibly the best oil out there at a great bargain.
_________________________
1985 Toyota Corolla LE, 4A-LC engine, ~ 264,000 M
Mobil 1 (M1) 0W-40 SN synthetic
Toyota 90915-YZZF2 filter, 90430-12031 drain gasket

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#2464898 - 12/16/11 08:11 PM Re: Mobil 1 0w-20 SN vs. Toyota 0w-20 SN [Re: Gokhan]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 30224
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
(1) First of all Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (TGMO) is made by ExxonMobil.

(2) Second, Toyota makes sure that TGMO has the best possible additive package for Toyota engines, including a generous amount of antiwear additives ZDDP (P) and moly (Mo), and no large amounts of magnesium (Mg), which is potentially corrosive and increases wear.

(3) From the viscosity index, TGMO seems to have more Group IV (PAO) in it than Mobil 1, therefore possibly a "more synthetic" oil than Mobil 1 (TGMO having less Group III dino in the mix). This means lower NOACK, which implies less deposits, more high-temperature stability, and less oil consumption. Although, I should say that this last point is something that is inferred and there is no direct information on this.

One can also argue that the large amount of Mg in Mobil 1 can help extended drains by providing TBN retention, which is what the Mg is for. But then Mg is also potentially corrosive and increases wear. Therefore, Mg in Mobil 1 has mixed benefits and potential harms.

After what I discussed above, TGMO 0W-20 is a better oil than Mobil 1 0W-20 in my opinion. This is especially so if you own a Toyota. TGMO is also cheaper than Mobil 1, which is another benefit.

These are the current prices of TGMO 0W-20 at Toyota dealers:

00279-0WQTE-01 $5.32 - $7.25 per quart
00289-1QT0W-T1 $4.89 - $6.66 per quart, need to buy 12 (case)

The cost to dealers is slightly (about 18%) less than the first number. The second number is the Toyota suggested retail price. Therefore, if you get the TGMO 0W-20 for around $5 - 6, you have a great deal, knowing that you bought possibly the best oil out there at a great bargain.


There are a lot of inaccuracies here. Toyota 0w20 is a very good oil, and probably the most fuel efficient. However, it only meets API SN where the M1 meets ACEA-08, GM 4718M. Volatility and base oils used will exceed the Toyota oil. XOM will use their best stuff in M1, not TGMO.

Where are you getting this idea that TGMO is using more PAO? Have you seen the MRV #'s for M1? In extreme temperatures, the Toyota is not as good. In terms of deposits, M1 is at the top.
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