Lead was banned from gasoline for PURELY political reasons. John--Las Vegas.
Of What Use Is An "Upper Cylinder Lubricant"?
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What better way to deliver a cleaning product to the engine, then through the fuel...
I have tried the Lucas stuff in my gas powered equipment at work and saw no difference in fuel consumption. I think the idea is that one it's in the fuel it lubes the cylinder on the combustion side of the stroke. It's a great idea but doesn't work in the real world.
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy on all my gas powered equipment. A mix of 1 ounce per 10 liters of fuel is all you need and adding more will not increase economy.
My generators and air compressors have all seen an increase. The 5.5 Honda motors on the air compressors used to last 6 hours per tank,now run at least 8 and the 3000 watt generators used to get 8 hours and now over 10.
Try it.
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy on all my gas powered equipment. A mix of 1 ounce per 10 liters of fuel is all you need and adding more will not increase economy.
My generators and air compressors have all seen an increase. The 5.5 Honda motors on the air compressors used to last 6 hours per tank,now run at least 8 and the 3000 watt generators used to get 8 hours and now over 10.
Try it.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I have tried the Lucas stuff in my gas powered equipment at work and saw no difference in fuel consumption. I think the idea is that one it's in the fuel it lubes the cylinder on the combustion side of the stroke. It's a great idea but doesn't work in the real world.
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy on all my gas powered equipment. A mix of 1 ounce per 10 liters of fuel is all you need and adding more will not increase economy.
My generators and air compressors have all seen an increase. The 5.5 Honda motors on the air compressors used to last 6 hours per tank,now run at least 8 and the 3000 watt generators used to get 8 hours and now over 10.
Try it.
The trial of one product hardly condemns all to the same fate.
Acetone is hardly a top end lube.
Perhaps try another top end lube...
I have tried the Lucas stuff in my gas powered equipment at work and saw no difference in fuel consumption. I think the idea is that one it's in the fuel it lubes the cylinder on the combustion side of the stroke. It's a great idea but doesn't work in the real world.
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy on all my gas powered equipment. A mix of 1 ounce per 10 liters of fuel is all you need and adding more will not increase economy.
My generators and air compressors have all seen an increase. The 5.5 Honda motors on the air compressors used to last 6 hours per tank,now run at least 8 and the 3000 watt generators used to get 8 hours and now over 10.
Try it.
The trial of one product hardly condemns all to the same fate.
Acetone is hardly a top end lube.
Perhaps try another top end lube...
Originally Posted By: Quest
Knowing full well that tetraethyl lead is a nerotoxin and been banned from use for publid-health reason, it begs the question why someone would want them back?
I certainly am not looking back with fondness. But, it is what it is. There were plenty in the day that complained that the demise of leaded gas and the proliferation of emissions equipment would mean we'd all be driving 100 hp cars forever. We know how that worked out.
Originally Posted By: Torino
Lead was banned from gasoline for PURELY political reasons.
Are you an old codger?
Knowing full well that tetraethyl lead is a nerotoxin and been banned from use for publid-health reason, it begs the question why someone would want them back?
I certainly am not looking back with fondness. But, it is what it is. There were plenty in the day that complained that the demise of leaded gas and the proliferation of emissions equipment would mean we'd all be driving 100 hp cars forever. We know how that worked out.
Originally Posted By: Torino
Lead was banned from gasoline for PURELY political reasons.
Are you an old codger?
Some of us old "Codgers" were actually driving cars back when lead was removed from fuel and remember problems cars were having when it was removed. IIRC boats took it pretty hard too, it took a while to iron that mess out. So yea maybe some people do want a substitute that is legal and more enviromentally friendly than lead, as a plus it helps keep injectors clean and working well.
I bet in a few years we'll be having this discussion about early DI engines, and the problems and solutions for all the people who were driving those vehicles. Those same measures [once they figure them out
] used to help with first generation DI issues might spill over, and might have value even with the newer technology to come. JMO
I use a UCL mainly because two of my vehicles can sometimes sit for weeks at a time. I believe a UCL prevents flash rusting in the combustion chamber, especially since I live near the ocean. YMMV
I bet in a few years we'll be having this discussion about early DI engines, and the problems and solutions for all the people who were driving those vehicles. Those same measures [once they figure them out
I use a UCL mainly because two of my vehicles can sometimes sit for weeks at a time. I believe a UCL prevents flash rusting in the combustion chamber, especially since I live near the ocean. YMMV
I have noticed that MMO in my car's fuel seem to give it a bit more pep. I experimented with it for a while ,then gave it up as a wash. My mowers and blowers are a different story. Since I started adding a cap full per fill up, my carb troubles have ceased
Originally Posted By: andyd
Since I started adding a cap full per fill up, my carb troubles have ceased
I've been doing that for years. I think it helps.
Since I started adding a cap full per fill up, my carb troubles have ceased
I've been doing that for years. I think it helps.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Some of us old "Codgers" were actually driving cars back when lead was removed from fuel and remember problems cars were having when it was removed. IIRC boats took it pretty hard too, it took a while to iron that mess out. So yea maybe some people do want a substitute that is legal and more enviromentally friendly than lead, as a plus it helps keep injectors clean and working well.
Don't worry, I was driving then, too. Of course there were problems. Heck, even the early hardened valve designs didn't perform as promised. However, I am one of those that believe that gas has gotten better over the years. Even on "vintage" vehicles, I haven't seen a case of vapor lock since the early 1980s.
We certainly will be having the same discussion down the road with DI. Doom and gloom accompanied the elimination of lead, introduction of cats and the like, introduction of ethanol, reduction of phosphorus, low sulfur diesel, and the list goes on. We're still driving, and driving better cars all the time.
Some of us old "Codgers" were actually driving cars back when lead was removed from fuel and remember problems cars were having when it was removed. IIRC boats took it pretty hard too, it took a while to iron that mess out. So yea maybe some people do want a substitute that is legal and more enviromentally friendly than lead, as a plus it helps keep injectors clean and working well.
Don't worry, I was driving then, too. Of course there were problems. Heck, even the early hardened valve designs didn't perform as promised. However, I am one of those that believe that gas has gotten better over the years. Even on "vintage" vehicles, I haven't seen a case of vapor lock since the early 1980s.
We certainly will be having the same discussion down the road with DI. Doom and gloom accompanied the elimination of lead, introduction of cats and the like, introduction of ethanol, reduction of phosphorus, low sulfur diesel, and the list goes on. We're still driving, and driving better cars all the time.
Funny vapor lock is mentioned after all this time.
We had an 81 Mustang with 200 I6 that started getting vapor lock when they put the ethanol in the fuels. No short trips in that one. Either let it run or leave it off a couple hours before trying to restart.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Where are you getting 15% ethanol fuel?
California
Where are you getting 15% ethanol fuel?
California
Originally Posted By: SS1970chrysler
Funny vapor lock is mentioned after all this time.
We had an 81 Mustang with 200 I6 that started getting vapor lock when they put the ethanol in the fuels.
Nothing here noticeable when ethanol began to appear. The 1970s were terrible for vapor lock up here.
Funny vapor lock is mentioned after all this time.
Nothing here noticeable when ethanol began to appear. The 1970s were terrible for vapor lock up here.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy
Are you saying (when acetone mixed into fuel) it lubes the cylinder on the combustion side of the stroke ?
Or how do you think the acetone works to give fuel savings ?
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy
Are you saying (when acetone mixed into fuel) it lubes the cylinder on the combustion side of the stroke ?
Or how do you think the acetone works to give fuel savings ?
acetone does not lube it makes the fire more complete therefore the better gas mileage
Originally Posted By: Clevy
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy
Can you post a link to the white paper for this proven theory?
boxcartommie22: is that why all gas refiners include acetone in their... oh wait, that's right, they don't.
I think it only works if you buy the Obecalp brand.
If you want better mileage I have proven that acetone mixed with fuel is good for at least a 10% increase in fuel economy
Can you post a link to the white paper for this proven theory?
boxcartommie22: is that why all gas refiners include acetone in their... oh wait, that's right, they don't.
I think it only works if you buy the Obecalp brand.
From what I understand UCL's in somewhat modern non direct injection systems lubricate intake valve seats reducing compression leakage losses. As for the UCL lubricating the upper cylinder, unless the engine is heavily worn it will not help. Why could it help? Why in some 2 stroke engines can more power, compression and reduced blow-by be obtained from slightly richer oil:fuel ratio's.
I think unless the engine is heavily worn suffering blow-by and leaky valve seats it's probably a waste of money.
I think unless the engine is heavily worn suffering blow-by and leaky valve seats it's probably a waste of money.
Being an 'upper cyl lube' is an all encompassing term.
Valve stems/guides are marginally helped with additional lube.
Their seating can be improved.
There is a slight help to the cyl bores/pistons.
Also, lubing modern fuel pumps is a huge thing, with ethanol infused gas. Some fuel injectors, too.
If [for instance] MMO is used, there is some cleaning and keeping
With 2 stroke oil, there is a very good lubing going on!
Some 4 stroke motorcycle guys at the track use FULL STRENGTH 2 stroke mixes, to stoo valve failure that was occurring at insane high revs!
Valve stems/guides are marginally helped with additional lube.
Their seating can be improved.
There is a slight help to the cyl bores/pistons.
Also, lubing modern fuel pumps is a huge thing, with ethanol infused gas. Some fuel injectors, too.
If [for instance] MMO is used, there is some cleaning and keeping
With 2 stroke oil, there is a very good lubing going on!
Some 4 stroke motorcycle guys at the track use FULL STRENGTH 2 stroke mixes, to stoo valve failure that was occurring at insane high revs!
I've wondered the same myself. It is all theory and fancy verbiage that makes it appear sound. Without a side by trial, though, there is no way to know if it lubricates the very upper cylinder..
On to the thought of increased fuel economy by acetone. At face value, any increase in combustion pressure/flame front propagation is free economy. Increasing compression ratio or advanced ignition timing will yield better economy... but up to certain point with 93 octane fuel. I've run nearly 11 to 1 compression down to 92 octane without "ping," and with a 180/190 psi on compression gauge. Good heads, meaning good swirl that mixes air/ fuel more complete in combustion chamber, and less sharp edges creates fewer hot spots.
But, I've wondered about "fuel economy gains" with small carbed engines at full time WOT. You see certain spark plug anecdote gains, and I'd hazard guess the throttle is reduced a bit via a governor, this could allow a more 'closed throttle' with that increase in cylinder pressure, yielding the gains. Acetone would be an interesting experiment.
On to the thought of increased fuel economy by acetone. At face value, any increase in combustion pressure/flame front propagation is free economy. Increasing compression ratio or advanced ignition timing will yield better economy... but up to certain point with 93 octane fuel. I've run nearly 11 to 1 compression down to 92 octane without "ping," and with a 180/190 psi on compression gauge. Good heads, meaning good swirl that mixes air/ fuel more complete in combustion chamber, and less sharp edges creates fewer hot spots.
But, I've wondered about "fuel economy gains" with small carbed engines at full time WOT. You see certain spark plug anecdote gains, and I'd hazard guess the throttle is reduced a bit via a governor, this could allow a more 'closed throttle' with that increase in cylinder pressure, yielding the gains. Acetone would be an interesting experiment.
Originally Posted By: Artem
[
Modern engines have piston oil jets that squirt oil UNDER the piston, for cooling and lubricating benefits. That oil also helps lubricate the cylinder walls but that's about it.
As far as upper cylinder lubrication... i call baloney as well. until i see a back to back study done on two engines, one ran with regular fuel and one with the additive and it shows considerably LESS cylinder wall wear, over the course of 200k+ i'll consider BELIEVING in the product but still see absolutely NO POINT in actually spending money on said additives. Waste of money.
Uh huh ! Show me the "money shot"
Until then I call [censored] on such additives.
[
Modern engines have piston oil jets that squirt oil UNDER the piston, for cooling and lubricating benefits. That oil also helps lubricate the cylinder walls but that's about it.
As far as upper cylinder lubrication... i call baloney as well. until i see a back to back study done on two engines, one ran with regular fuel and one with the additive and it shows considerably LESS cylinder wall wear, over the course of 200k+ i'll consider BELIEVING in the product but still see absolutely NO POINT in actually spending money on said additives. Waste of money.
Uh huh ! Show me the "money shot"
Until then I call [censored] on such additives.
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Originally Posted By: Torino
Lead was banned from gasoline for PURELY political reasons. John--Las Vegas.
LOL, you actually believe this tripe don't you ?
Catalytic converters (which have markedly improved U.S. air quality, even you would have to admit) don't work for very long when metals like lead and manganese are being pumped into them.
You want catalyst technology, you have to get the lead out.
Lead was banned from gasoline for PURELY political reasons. John--Las Vegas.
LOL, you actually believe this tripe don't you ?
Catalytic converters (which have markedly improved U.S. air quality, even you would have to admit) don't work for very long when metals like lead and manganese are being pumped into them.
You want catalyst technology, you have to get the lead out.
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