Change oil after one year, regardless of mileage?

[snakyjake]

I drive my diesel truck less than the oil change interval, and don't drive my motorcycle more than than the oil change interval either.

I've heard the anti-oxidants do not last longer than one year, regardless of oil mileage.

Do I still need to change the oil after one year?
Is oil time sensitive?
How much time can I go?

Thanks in advance. Jake.

 

[Colt45ws]

I dont think so.
The big reason a lot of time you see the one year limit, is if it being driven that little, it is probably getting short tripped and you need to get the water and fuel build up out.
If you always get it hot whenever it is driven, longer than a year is no problem.

 

[Bluestream]

UOA is the only way to know, but one year is not a limitation. I am taking my BMW to a 3 year oil change. I drive about 2K miles per year. Still have two years to go on Pennzoil 5W50.

Not sure about a diesel though...

 

[dnewton3]

To the contrary, oil has zero idea of how old it is.

The only way to know for sure how your lube is performing and how much "lifecycle" is left is to get a UOA.

However, most HDEOs have more than enough additives to survive 3 years in the crankcase. I personally do my vintage 289 V-8 Mustang every three years. I do my Kubota tractor and ZTR every two or three years.

I look not just at the calendar, but the type and severity of use. Super-short use factors where the equipment does not come up to temp might be a concern. But "typical" decent use, if infrequent, is not automatically a cause for an OCI. The "... or one year ..." OCI mantra is a safeguard from the OEMs to limit their exposure to warranty claims.

Here's the real underlying rub:
It's often cheaper (especially with small sump units) to OCI than it is to do a UOA. It often makes sense just to change the oil; it's cheaper and you KNOW that acid build up isn't an issue.

Some (like me) feel it's worth the risk to extend the OCI, because the risk is small. I've seen UOAs with three and four years of oil in a crankcase, and everything was fine. With the cost of oil ever going up, I'm not throwing my oil away just because the calendar tells me to.

The only "right" answer is the one you feel comfortable with. Just know that nearly any lube can last well past a year, presuming all the operating conditions are "normal" (up to temps, no contamination leaks, etc).

 

[Jim Allen]

What DNewton Said!

I do two and three year intervals on cars, trucks and farm equipment and have backed them up with UOAs. The main caveat is that they not be a frequent short hopper, such as a one mile daily commute five days a week with very little use outside of that.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
What DNewton Said!

I do two and three year intervals on cars, trucks and farm equipment and have backed them up with UOAs. The main caveat is that they not be a frequent short hopper, such as a one mile daily commute five days a week with very little use outside of that.


Amazing!
Are you using Dino or synthetic oil? what brand/grade ?
In my 2009 civic commute 5 mile each morning and night... does it automatically qualify for a "frequent short hopper" too ?
Or is the OCI miles and time-duration also vehicle (engine) specific ?

Finally, for a qualified short hopper, is 1 year or 6 months the correct OCI interval ?
thanks!

 

[dnewton3]

I cannot speak for Jim, but my two and three year OCIs are on HDEO dino oil, used in my Kubota tractor, Scag ZTR, 1966 Mustang, 2006 Goldwing, etc.

My other vehicles get OCIs shorter than a year, only because they reach the OEM OCI mileage limit way before the year has passed.

 

[Jim Allen]

Oh, not so amazing. You can find other examples on the board here, DNewton and I being being only two.

I mostly use mineral oil, or a syn blend, but have used synthetic. I see no real difference in the context of the time issue.

I do believe the driving situation is the main criteria. I am rural, so anywhere I go it's usually a minimum of 20 miles from start to finish at speed of 55+, so the oil gets a chance to warm up and "cook" for a little while.

Interestingly, one of my fleet is a Honda Accord and I run it on an 8-8500 mile, no time limit schedule. That often works out to about 18 months but has almost gone two years once or twice.

Your five mile commute with a Honda is right at the cusp. If you live in a warm climate, you are not a short hopper IMO, but if you have cold winters, you are. I presume you use the car for more than commuting and a long drive every other weekend may be enough to take you out of short hopper category. The idea is to get the oil up to 160 minimum and keep it there for "a while." We have debated and researched a minimum interval for that and have not reached a consensus, nor have we found any test data. The closest we can come consensus (at least in the discussions I recall) is about a 15 minute "at temp" interval. Longer is better.

Yes, it is somewhat vehicle specific in my opinion. The oil in a small sump car will heat up much faster than in a large sump, given equal workloads. My diesel pickup hold 10 quarts and take longer to reach about 180F oil temp than the Honda that holds only five. The IH tractor, which hold 12 qts, takes even longer, partially due to the massive cooling system it has.

For a "qualified" short hopper, six month is the safe bet. The odds are good it could go a year in all but the worst situations with a good oil, but you'd want to verify that with UOA staken at 6-month intervals a few times. Once that's done, you could settle into whatever routine those tests indicated. Honestly, changing at six months is probably cheaper than the UOA route, especially if you do the maintenance yourself and price shop for your oil. Still, many of us do it just because.

 

[fpracha]

OK thanks so much for the detail.
Are you using any specific oil in the Honda Accord or just the same as in your other vehicles ? What is this brand and is it a 10w30 or other ?
Do you change filters in between oil changes , when ?

The civic holds just 4 quarts but given the similar metallurgy of Honda your experience is valuable for my civic anyhow!

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: fpracha
OK thanks so much for the detail.
The civic holds just 4 quarts but given the similar metallurgy of Honda your experience is valuable for my civic anyhow!


Can you explain the comment on the "similar metallurgy"? I'm a bit lost on that

 

[Jim Allen]

My 2000 Accord is a V6 and holds five quarts and I change the filter every time (8500 miles). It's old enough to be rated for 5W30 and that's what I use. I have used Castrol GTX in it pretty all the way through but about four years ago switched over to my own blend of 4 quarts GTX and one Quart Syntec (it's cheaper than buying Castrol's syn blend too). I have one more change stashed, after which I will switch to a "fleet oil," 10W30 Rotella T5 (CJ4/SM) , which I can use in everything on this farm, gas, diesel, small or large.

RE the Honda, I am debating installing a bypass system and running 10-15K OCIs (3-5 years). There is a new 3 um filter media (Racor ABS... Google it) that will partially filter oxidation byproducts and water, which would make it better for long intervals. Have it on my two pickups and on the diesel it did a remarkable job of cleaning the oil. Will soon see about the gasser. I plan to run 10K intervals on it to start using mineral oil (Motorcraft 10W30 Super Duty no time limit) but will verify with UOAs. I will then switch it to the aforementioned T5, which is a Syn Blend, and perhaps run it even longer according to UOA results.

 

[dnewton3]

As you can see, Jim is approaching this in a wreckless and hap-hazzard manner. After all, why let facts, data, methodology, technology and good ol' common sense creep into this?

All kidding aside, I applaud his approach, as he thinks and tests his way through his real-world scenarios, rather than "feeling" his way through with supposition.

I'd like to believe that I've drawn him into the dark side of HDEO, utilizing 10w-30 rather than 15w-40. OTOH, he's sucked me into his deeply disturbed "gage-a-holic" world.
Turn-about is fair play, after all.

 

[Jim Allen]

Well, Dave, I guess I'll give you credit for pushing me closer to the edge on the 10W30 question. Like many who change a lifetime of habit, I had an "Object Lesson #1" moment and everything kinda filled in around that.

 

[Bluestream]

I have never seen an inside of an engine that had been eaten by acids and combustion by-products to the point that actual damage was caused. Even engines that had sat outside for along time when disassembled had bearings that showed no signs of acid damage. Yet, I grew up fearing that would happen if I didn't change my oil every three months.

Obviously oil needs to be changed at some point, but I think we can go a lot longer than what we are told. And that is saving me a lot of money these days, as I have 5 vehicle in the family that I maintain..

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream


Obviously oil needs to be changed at some point, but I think we can go a lot longer than what we are told. And that is saving me a lot of money these days, as I have 5 vehicle in the family that I maintain..


Amen, brutha!

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Can you explain the comment on the "similar metallurgy"? I'm a bit lost on that

Valid question, although i later learned (above) that Jim has a 2000 Accord which may not be so much closer to my 2009/2010 Civic in terms of design engineering at honda, since the two models are ~10 years apart!

Well its a slip of the keys i must say, but how else to "succintly" state the following (also summarized):
Accord and Civic engine designs would be similar considering the Honda Japan design philosophy and specifically the fact that Japanese pack more power in smaller engine sizes (their niche), hence a higher power-to-engine-size ratio. Then also the Japanese piston-crown-top-ring positioning as has been extensively discussed on BITOG. So when the oil will stay in such engines for low miles travelled over 2-3-4 year periods, would it not affect the final condition of all the metal parts, possibly influencing bearing clearings and overall tolerance of the engine ?
If this is not true, please lead me to impirical data, because if it is true, metallurgy will have a critical role to play since we are leaving higher fuel, higher moisture, and more % degraded oil for a longer and longer time duration.

 

[pavelow]

Moisture is the #1 problem in your situation. Lack of use means the moisture that naturally builds up inside the engine doesn't get burned off regularly. The real answer is to just drive the truck more frequently and ride the bike more frequently. You bought them to use them right...so why let them sit? lol

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
My 2000 Accord is a V6 and holds five quarts and I change the filter every time (8500 miles).
RE the Honda, I am debating installing a bypass system and running 10-15K OCIs (3-5 years). There is a new 3 um filter media (Racor ABS... Google it) that will partially filter oxidation byproducts and water, which would make it better for long intervals.

hi Jim!
Is it not a stretch to use the oil filter over a 2-3 year interval ?
Honda owners manual says to change oil filter every 6 months. I presume this is when using Honda original oil filters and not the aftermarket ones.

 

[Jim Allen]

Why would it be a stretch to run 2-3 years? Or longer? The filter doesn't deteriorate over that time. It certainly won't plug up over that time, especially if there is a large bypass filter in the system taking some of the load. There is a phenomenon called heat aging which does effect rubber/nitrile and possibly silicone parts but it's mostly time-at-temp that does it and putting roughly 5-6K a year on the car, that will not be an issue. I have been cutting open the filters on that car over several 1-2 year OCIs and have yet to see anything that indicates a problem. I think I have this pretty well thought out but if someone can point out something I haven't considered, I'm more than willing (and grateful) to look at it.

 

[dnewton3]

I agree, I don't believe a filter knows how old it is any more than a fluid.