A fair comparison? Both share similiar hot/cold viscosity,tbn,and pour point. The DEO however may contain some GrpIV basestocks but addpacks may differ.
Amsoil DEO vs Rotella T6
- Thread starter Keith_Stone
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Very interesting graphs. Since I just put RT6 in my Dodge, the information is timely. The fast drop in TBN is for RT6 doesn't look good, but it is still a serviceable 6.5 at almost 400 hours. The RT6 does have very good shear stability up to 300 hours, when it dropped out of grade. Assuming an average driving speed of 50mph, 300 hours of use would mean 15k-mile OCI. AMSOIL does perform best in this test, but considering cost and availability, RT6 may be a better value.
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
That does look like an Amsoil ad/graph.
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
That does look like an Amsoil ad/graph.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Very interesting graphs. Since I just put RT6 in my Dodge, the information is timely. The fast drop in TBN is for RT6 doesn't look good, but it is still a serviceable 6.5 at almost 400 hours. The RT6 does have very good shear stability up to 300 hours, when it dropped out of grade. Assuming an average driving speed of 50mph, 300 hours of use would mean 15k-mile OCI. AMSOIL does perform best in this test, but considering cost and availability, RT6 may be a better value.
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
That test was done at DOUBLE the normal shear rate, trying to mimic conditions found in newer diesel engines. Don't think your VP-type with pushrods (I think?) has the same oil conditions.
Yes, it's from the Amsoil DEO page.
Very interesting graphs. Since I just put RT6 in my Dodge, the information is timely. The fast drop in TBN is for RT6 doesn't look good, but it is still a serviceable 6.5 at almost 400 hours. The RT6 does have very good shear stability up to 300 hours, when it dropped out of grade. Assuming an average driving speed of 50mph, 300 hours of use would mean 15k-mile OCI. AMSOIL does perform best in this test, but considering cost and availability, RT6 may be a better value.
But one thing I did notice: Since the AMSOIL oil is listed in bold type in the legend, does this mean the graph is a download off the AMSOIL website?
That test was done at DOUBLE the normal shear rate, trying to mimic conditions found in newer diesel engines. Don't think your VP-type with pushrods (I think?) has the same oil conditions.
Yes, it's from the Amsoil DEO page.
dnewton3
Staff member
Looking at the charts, the vis held up nice if you ask me (T6 vs DEO). While vis is important, a slight drop below the range is not, in itself, detrimental. I get tired of the " ... but the visocity is down ..." complaints. Most decent diesel engines can operate well on a 30 grade. If a 40 grade drops into 30 grade, I don't see evidence of a corresponding loss of wear protection in the UOA results.
The TBN is moot. Even at an averge of 30mph, that T6 would be 12k miles of use. TBN of 6.0 after 12k miles is darn good.
So, both products offer good vis and TBN; more than enough to protect well, even up to 12k miles (and likely much more).
The question becomes one of cost. Which will offer the best ROI for a given OCI? If you're heading out to 25k miles, I'd say they would likely break even, because you'd probably do one Amsoil OCI for two T6 OCIs. But if you stick to 12k miles or less for your OCI limit, the T6 is a big winner with simlar (admittedly not the same) performance for far less cost.
Too many people worry about which is "best", when frankly the "good" products are still far better than they need for their planned OCI.
The TBN is moot. Even at an averge of 30mph, that T6 would be 12k miles of use. TBN of 6.0 after 12k miles is darn good.
So, both products offer good vis and TBN; more than enough to protect well, even up to 12k miles (and likely much more).
The question becomes one of cost. Which will offer the best ROI for a given OCI? If you're heading out to 25k miles, I'd say they would likely break even, because you'd probably do one Amsoil OCI for two T6 OCIs. But if you stick to 12k miles or less for your OCI limit, the T6 is a big winner with simlar (admittedly not the same) performance for far less cost.
Too many people worry about which is "best", when frankly the "good" products are still far better than they need for their planned OCI.
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^This. Good points and reasoning, I like. +1!
Im not an extended OCI kinda guy so for my applications AMSOIL is awaste of money, although I hav been using there gear oils and such for extended change intervals, and soon to flush my PS and brake fluids out and replace with AMSOIL..........anyway My question is whats the price on the DEO ?
Wholesale price shows
1. Quart $6.80
2. Gallon $26.70
P/C Price shows
1. Quart $5.25
2. Gallon $20.45
Plus if you have it shipped to your door? You have to pay shipping and tax... Which adds a bit more...
If I lived very close to a warehouse, where I could just drive and pick it up, I for sure would use this oil... but after shipping and tax added to the price? I can drive to WM and pick up a very good HDD oil for cheaper.---->T6 or TDT.
1. Quart $6.80
2. Gallon $26.70
P/C Price shows
1. Quart $5.25
2. Gallon $20.45
Plus if you have it shipped to your door? You have to pay shipping and tax... Which adds a bit more...
If I lived very close to a warehouse, where I could just drive and pick it up, I for sure would use this oil... but after shipping and tax added to the price? I can drive to WM and pick up a very good HDD oil for cheaper.---->T6 or TDT.
What is the CURRENT price on T6? Not discount, not last year.
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
Originally Posted By: Pablo
What is the CURRENT price on T6? Not discount, not last year.
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
Last time, I check it was like 21 and change... And in mass you gotta give the state 6.25% of course.
What is the CURRENT price on T6? Not discount, not last year.
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
Last time, I check it was like 21 and change... And in mass you gotta give the state 6.25% of course.
Thanks for a honest answer. So we aren't taking mega dollar difference, I just wanted that to be clear.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Thanks for a honest answer. So we aren't taking mega dollar difference, I just wanted that to be clear.
Don't normally stir the pot, but I'm with Pablo, and Amsoil DEO, on this one. I have a modified 6.0L power stroke, live in hot Louisiana, and tow a 12k trailer often. I can tell the difference in oil. The 6.0L shears oil like mad, it may not show up on a UOA, but the engine certainly runs better on fresh oil, ie oil in 40 grade. Delo is good for about 2k miles, Rotella foams too much and generally underperforms in engine smoothness, TDT works pretty well up to 4k miles, but the DEO lasts my full 5k OCI and in 40 grade when I drain it. My money goes with DEO, you can tell the difference in engine smoothness after 4k miles.
Thanks for a honest answer. So we aren't taking mega dollar difference, I just wanted that to be clear.
Don't normally stir the pot, but I'm with Pablo, and Amsoil DEO, on this one. I have a modified 6.0L power stroke, live in hot Louisiana, and tow a 12k trailer often. I can tell the difference in oil. The 6.0L shears oil like mad, it may not show up on a UOA, but the engine certainly runs better on fresh oil, ie oil in 40 grade. Delo is good for about 2k miles, Rotella foams too much and generally underperforms in engine smoothness, TDT works pretty well up to 4k miles, but the DEO lasts my full 5k OCI and in 40 grade when I drain it. My money goes with DEO, you can tell the difference in engine smoothness after 4k miles.
Both are good. I'd use the Mobil 1 Delvac over both.
http://www.mobil.us/USA-English-LCW/heav...1-esp-5w40.aspx
http://www.mobil.us/USA-English-LCW/heav...1-esp-5w40.aspx
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Thanks for a honest answer. So we aren't taking mega dollar difference, I just wanted that to be clear.
No problem, I think Mobil TDT goes for 24.50 or something like that at wally world so you are spending 2-5 extra a gallon for the Amsoil. The only wild card is shipping so you might end up paying an extra 4-8 bucks a gallon, which if you have the extra scratch isn't too bad. Spending 125 or so every 7500-10,000 miles isn't in the budget for me though.
Thanks for a honest answer. So we aren't taking mega dollar difference, I just wanted that to be clear.
No problem, I think Mobil TDT goes for 24.50 or something like that at wally world so you are spending 2-5 extra a gallon for the Amsoil. The only wild card is shipping so you might end up paying an extra 4-8 bucks a gallon, which if you have the extra scratch isn't too bad. Spending 125 or so every 7500-10,000 miles isn't in the budget for me though.
Of course, you can get coupons, sale prices, and closeouts for the non boutique oils, so that $21-change price (which is what the T6 costs around here) can be beat on occasion. I don't use the T6 but I recently stocked up on T5 when they had $2 off coupons.
I wonder, does Amsoil ever do sales or free shipping promotions? The HDD is killer oil, and more or less perfect for my "fleet." I might have stocked up if I'd known about anything like that. It's been the HDD costs (initial + shipping) and resultant mediocre ROI (in my special circumstance, I won't go into all the details now) that has always stopped me from getting it.
I wonder, does Amsoil ever do sales or free shipping promotions? The HDD is killer oil, and more or less perfect for my "fleet." I might have stocked up if I'd known about anything like that. It's been the HDD costs (initial + shipping) and resultant mediocre ROI (in my special circumstance, I won't go into all the details now) that has always stopped me from getting it.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Pablo
What is the CURRENT price on T6? Not discount, not last year.
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
I completely agree with Paul.
To keep things fair, the taxes should be left out. An HONEST person would have equal taxes: buy at the store, pay your tax. Buy via the internet, and you are still supposed to report the purchase and pay the tax. Most people probably don't, but they should.
Leave the tax debate out of it. Shipping considerations are a fair topic, but not taxes.
What is the CURRENT price on T6? Not discount, not last year.
Of course you would pay tax on the T6. Why would you think only Amsoil would have tax?
I completely agree with Paul.
To keep things fair, the taxes should be left out. An HONEST person would have equal taxes: buy at the store, pay your tax. Buy via the internet, and you are still supposed to report the purchase and pay the tax. Most people probably don't, but they should.
Leave the tax debate out of it. Shipping considerations are a fair topic, but not taxes.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
Don't normally stir the pot, but I'm with Pablo, and Amsoil DEO, on this one. I have a modified 6.0L power stroke, live in hot Louisiana, and tow a 12k trailer often. I can tell the difference in oil. The 6.0L shears oil like mad, it may not show up on a UOA, but the engine certainly runs better on fresh oil, ie oil in 40 grade. Delo is good for about 2k miles, Rotella foams too much and generally underperforms in engine smoothness, TDT works pretty well up to 4k miles, but the DEO lasts my full 5k OCI and in 40 grade when I drain it. My money goes with DEO, you can tell the difference in engine smoothness after 4k miles.
WOW! I don't even know where to start, but here goes. I will caution that I'm going to be a bit harsh here ...
Where did you get those mileage limits? Delo only 2k, Rotella foams to much, Mobil TDT not good for much further? Only AMSOIL will save the day at 5k mile OCIs? (Just what test did you come up with to check for the Rotella foaming, by the way?)
How do you quantify engine smoothness? Are you using a seat-of-the-pants-o-meter? When was it last calibrated?
Yes - 6.0's shear 40 grades, but everything is relative. The charts posted show that T6 didn't shear that much more than did DEO. They represent a very small percentage difference. Further, shearing is over-feared. I've seen lot's of shear'd oil in UOAs and the wear metals came back fine. My neighbor has a 6.0 and we're in the midwest. I doesn't get THAT much hotter where you are. He run's dino Rotella 10w-30 in his 6.0PSD, and it runs fine. He pulls a BIG heavy boat back and forth to the lake often. I've ridden in it many times. He has also used VPB 15w-40 at times. To be honest, the ONLY differnce we can really perceive is the easier starting and less "romp" when it's really cold outside; thinner grades start up easier with the HEUI.
I fully agree that DEO is a quality made product that will peform quite well. But come now; are we supposed to believe that your undocumented, "feels like" criteria are reasonable? I SERIOUSLY doubt the distance limits you mention (ultra short OCIs) are a true matter of lube performance; rather, those are self-imposed limits with no real data to back them up.
Don't normally stir the pot, but I'm with Pablo, and Amsoil DEO, on this one. I have a modified 6.0L power stroke, live in hot Louisiana, and tow a 12k trailer often. I can tell the difference in oil. The 6.0L shears oil like mad, it may not show up on a UOA, but the engine certainly runs better on fresh oil, ie oil in 40 grade. Delo is good for about 2k miles, Rotella foams too much and generally underperforms in engine smoothness, TDT works pretty well up to 4k miles, but the DEO lasts my full 5k OCI and in 40 grade when I drain it. My money goes with DEO, you can tell the difference in engine smoothness after 4k miles.
WOW! I don't even know where to start, but here goes. I will caution that I'm going to be a bit harsh here ...
Where did you get those mileage limits? Delo only 2k, Rotella foams to much, Mobil TDT not good for much further? Only AMSOIL will save the day at 5k mile OCIs? (Just what test did you come up with to check for the Rotella foaming, by the way?)
How do you quantify engine smoothness? Are you using a seat-of-the-pants-o-meter? When was it last calibrated?
Yes - 6.0's shear 40 grades, but everything is relative. The charts posted show that T6 didn't shear that much more than did DEO. They represent a very small percentage difference. Further, shearing is over-feared. I've seen lot's of shear'd oil in UOAs and the wear metals came back fine. My neighbor has a 6.0 and we're in the midwest. I doesn't get THAT much hotter where you are. He run's dino Rotella 10w-30 in his 6.0PSD, and it runs fine. He pulls a BIG heavy boat back and forth to the lake often. I've ridden in it many times. He has also used VPB 15w-40 at times. To be honest, the ONLY differnce we can really perceive is the easier starting and less "romp" when it's really cold outside; thinner grades start up easier with the HEUI.
I fully agree that DEO is a quality made product that will peform quite well. But come now; are we supposed to believe that your undocumented, "feels like" criteria are reasonable? I SERIOUSLY doubt the distance limits you mention (ultra short OCIs) are a true matter of lube performance; rather, those are self-imposed limits with no real data to back them up.
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Nah, not harsh, I'm a big boy and besides, I've read your responces before, I expected to draw some rath. I have no measurable data to justify my statements, just the way my truck runs. Most new Fords have an air flow meter on the air filter housing that tells you when to change the air filter, well, you can tell the truck is beginning to "starve" for air well before the flow meter tells you it's time to change it, about 3/4ths of the way to change actually. The truck runs differently, not as well. Change the filter and the truck goes back to running great. Same as with oil, you can tell by the smoothness of the engine. I attribute that lack of smoothness and increased romp at idle to an oil shearing out of a serviceable grade, when you put in fresh oil, of any brand, it goes away and runs great again for a period of time. No not scientific or measurable, but certainly noticeable. That's all I have, take it or leave it. Let your knowledge of your vehicle be your guide, in every case.
Whenever I order Amsoil online I am charged sales tax by Amsoil. So the one brand having a tax and the other don't, surely don't work for me.
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