Difference between Fram oil filters?

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hardcore302

hardcore302

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Extra, Tough, Extended, and High Mileage

What's the difference between them?

I have a Tough Guard on my Saturn Vue 3.6 with Supertech conventional and the consensus here was to vhange after 4K.

I'm halfway through.. just wondering the difference.

BTW, I have another Tough Guard and SN PYB lined up for the next OCI..

I'll see if I can cut it open for you.
 
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Extra, Tough, Extended, and High Mileage

What's the difference between them?

I have a Tough Guard on my Saturn Vue 3.6 with Supertech conventional and the consensus here was to vhange after 4K.

I'm halfway through.. just wondering the difference.

BTW, I have another Tough Guard and SN PYB lined up for the next OCI..

I'll see if I can cut it open for you.


Friends don't let friends buy Fram. There are better filters, but no better marketing. Cut some apart. If you must have a Fram, get one with a at least a coil spring for the pressure relief.
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
Extra, Tough, Extended, and High Mileage

What's the difference between them?

I have a Tough Guard on my Saturn Vue 3.6 with Supertech conventional and the consensus here was to vhange after 4K.

I'm halfway through.. just wondering the difference.

BTW, I have another Tough Guard and SN PYB lined up for the next OCI..

I'll see if I can cut it open for you.


Friends don't let friends buy Fram. There are better filters, but no better marketing. Cut some apart. If you must have a Fram, get one with a at least a coil spring for the pressure relief.
Amen brother! Run fast and don't look back.
 
Originally Posted By: qdeezie
Extra Guard - General Construction

Tough Guard - General Construction

Xtended Guard - General Construction

The Xtended Guard has changed some over the years, from the outside going from silver to gold and it having 2 layers instead of one, but the general construction of the filter is the same.

The high mileage filter has a tube in it with a gel substance that disperses into your oil over time.


The gel substance is PFTE (teflon). If Dupont says PFTE does not belong in engine oil, that is good enough for me.
 
The Canadian Fram website is very confusing for newbies, because they've got a listing for the Xtended Guard filter and another one for the "synthetic oil filter" even though that's the same filter! Why they list that filter twice is beyond me, but it's gotta be confusing for those visiting the site that aren't familiar with this filter.

Check it out and see:

http://ca.fram.com/enca/oil_filters

Weird eh?
 
Originally Posted By: Donald
The gel substance is PFTE (teflon).
I believe you're thinking of the old black DoubleGuard filters. They had Teflon impregnated into the filter media and were a VERY bad idea. I don't think FRAM have made them for a few years now.
 
I'd use either Xtended Guard or Tough Guard, if limited by choice for one reason or another; and avoid an e-core.
crazy2.gif
 
The TG is a good filter. People like to ascribe internet pictures of the Extra to every Fram filter and claim they're "junk", with no reason for it.

The picture in this thread details its construction--it seems to be a very well-constructed filter: fairly heavy can, heavy base plate with deep, clean threads, even pleat spacing, high quantity of media (cellulose/synthetic blend),silicone ADBV. Yes, it has fiber end caps, but no one has every been able to articulate a reason as to why that's bad--they just parrot the marketing spin that "metal is better". It also filters much better than most, 99%@ 20u. The only downside to it is flow--it doesn't flow nearly as well as the Pure One (based on both a swatch media test and Purolator's bench test). You can decide if that's important or not.

Personally, I'd rather have high flow and good filtration, so I'd probably opt for the Pure One if it fit my application--but I certainly wouldn't worry about having one of these on my car. It's a good filter.
 
Extra Guard - Your basic filter such as the Purolator Classic, Super Tech, and so on.

Tough Guard - Probably an Extra Guard with a Silicone ADBV and little better media

Xtended Guard - Metal end caps, 2 layers of media, better filtration.

Don't let the whole "Orange Can of Doom" or death or whatever the Fram hater on this site uses, scare you. Their filter will do it's job.

Here's a used Tough Guard I cut open:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2312097&page=1
 
Quote:
....The picture in this thread details its construction--it seems to be a very well-constructed filter: fairly heavy can, heavy base plate with deep, clean threads, even pleat spacing, high quantity of media (cellulose/synthetic blend),silicone ADBV. Yes, it has fiber end caps, but no one has every been able to articulate a reason as to why that's bad--they just parrot the marketing spin that "metal is better". It also filters much better than most, 99%@ 20u.....

That's not what the specs say. It says 99%>20um. A small distinction perhaps, but it's not at a given micron level. There's interpretation room in that figure.

As for fiber being the equal to metal, show me one extended oci/extended performance canister filter that uses fiber endcaps and I might agree, until then I'll take the metal endcaps as the superior design. So no one has been able to articulate a reason 'that satisfies you', doesn't mean it hasn't been stated. I'm satisfied.

Quite frankly sounds as though someone else besides those that prefer metal endcap design aren't the only ones parroting marketing spin here. But, if one wants to pay more for an oil filter that's obviously cheaper to make, Fram's got em.

Bottom line as always, better filters than the TG can be had for the same or less money. But, the TG should meet the OP's requirements for his OCI.

Lastly as pointed out above, Fram is the same company that produced the Double Guard filter with Teflon in it.
31.gif
And still produces the HM filter with some kind of oil life extending goo. Not a great track record, and I sure don't want Fram picking the additives that go in my oil.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
The TG is a good filter. People like to ascribe internet pictures of the Extra to every Fram filter and claim they're "junk", with no reason for it.

The picture in this thread details its construction--it seems to be a very well-constructed filter: fairly heavy can, heavy base plate with deep, clean threads, even pleat spacing, high quantity of media (cellulose/synthetic blend),silicone ADBV. Yes, it has fiber end caps, but no one has every been able to articulate a reason as to why that's bad--they just parrot the marketing spin that "metal is better". It also filters much better than most, 99%@ 20u. The only downside to it is flow--it doesn't flow nearly as well as the Pure One (based on both a swatch media test and Purolator's bench test). You can decide if that's important or not.

Personally, I'd rather have high flow and good filtration, so I'd probably opt for the Pure One if it fit my application--but I certainly wouldn't worry about having one of these on my car. It's a good filter.


I would be more concern with the paper media itself than the end caps. Honda say to use 10K OCI, and their OEM filter is just a rebadge Tough Guard. I had a tear in the media on a PureOne sometime in the 3,000 OCI. Metal endcaps doesn't seem to matter in this case.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac

As for fiber being the equal to metal, show me one extended oci/extended performance canister filter that uses fiber endcaps and I might agree, until then I'll take the metal endcaps as the superior design. So no one has been able to articulate a reason 'that satisfies you', doesn't mean it hasn't been stated. I'm satisfied.

Quite frankly sounds as though someone else besides those that prefer metal endcap design aren't the only ones parroting marketing spin here. But, if one wants to pay more for an oil filter that's obviously cheaper to make, Fram's got em.


I haven't used a Fram filter since I used them on my old '84 GTI that I had in college, 20 years ago. I have no allegiance to or affinity for Fram--I just get bothered by the sheeple-bashing mentality that says it's cool to dis a product just based on unsound logic...

Honda specs its filter for OCI's of up to 15K or more on a single filter--with fiber end caps (made by Fram), so that answers your question. That fact is, it's harder to bond dissimilar materials (which is why you often see excessive glue on metal end caps), so there's actually some benefit to fiber end caps with a cellulose media. And filtering capacity has absolutely nothing to do with end cap material. I've read enough of you post to know you're smart and informed enough to realize this fact.

As far as the "they cost more", well, that depends. If you pay full retail, sure. The TG is often part of those oil change specials at my local parts stores though, and the actual cost ends up being pretty cheap. And, as I thought I said pretty clearly, I'd take the Pure One over the TG--so that should make it pretty clear I think there are better options--but the end cap thing has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Bottom line as always, better filters than the TG can be had for the same or less money.


Well, that depends on your definition of better, and what you're paying for the TG, don't you think?


Originally Posted By: sayjac
Lastly as pointed out above, Fram is the same company that produced the Double Guard filter with Teflon in it.
31.gif
And still produces the HM filter with some kind of oil life extending goo. Not a great track record, and I sure don't want Fram picking the additives that go in my oil.


They're also the OEM manufacturer for Honda and Subaru, and they manufacture the EG filter, one of the best-constructed filters on the market. So it seems to me they make both good and lousy stuff. Maybe it would make more sense to evaluate their individual offerings rather than basing a decision just based on reputation? Those are my thoughts, at least.
 
Quote:
Honda specs its filter for OCI's of up to 15K or more on a single filter--with fiber end caps (made by Fram), so that answers your question.
31.gif
Not what I said or asked. I didn't ask for an auto manufacturer that recommends filters that go 2 OCI's. In Honda's case that would be any filter that meets specs for use in Honda's. So no, it doesn't answer my question. By that definition the orange can could be an extended oci filter anywhere.
whistle.gif


Again, show me an extended OCI/extended performance canister with fiber endcap construction. That would be as designed/designated by the filter manufacturer, not as Honda recommended.

TG reference price is Wally everday price, as low or lower than the average parts store, generally ~$6-6.50. That's what I'd have to pay and Wally prices are 'fairly' standard nationwide. I can do as good or better with a Kmart P1 everyday with no rebate or AAP code. With em, not even close.

I can agree on one thing, the XG is a quality filter. Curiously though it's construction just happens to be unlike any other filter they make. But, when you produce gimmick filters for consumers such as the Double Guard and the High Mileage filters, it does leave room for doubt about the quality of other offerings.
 
I see where sayjac is coming from, the point is it's considered 'higher' quality for an extended performance/drain oil filter to have metal end-caps. For preference or expectation alone, it is a tangible truth. Virtually all EP oil filters, INCLUDING Fram's Xtended Guard, have metal end caps.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: sayjac

As for fiber being the equal to metal, show me one extended oci/extended performance canister filter that uses fiber endcaps and I might agree, until then I'll take the metal endcaps as the superior design. So no one has been able to articulate a reason 'that satisfies you', doesn't mean it hasn't been stated. I'm satisfied.

Quite frankly sounds as though someone else besides those that prefer metal endcap design aren't the only ones parroting marketing spin here. But, if one wants to pay more for an oil filter that's obviously cheaper to make, Fram's got em.


I haven't used a Fram filter since I used them on my old '84 GTI that I had in college, 20 years ago. I have no allegiance to or affinity for Fram--I just get bothered by the sheeple-bashing mentality that says it's cool to dis a product just based on unsound logic...

Honda specs its filter for OCI's of up to 15K or more on a single filter--with fiber end caps (made by Fram), so that answers your question. That fact is, it's harder to bond dissimilar materials (which is why you often see excessive glue on metal end caps), so there's actually some benefit to fiber end caps with a cellulose media. And filtering capacity has absolutely nothing to do with end cap material. I've read enough of you post to know you're smart and informed enough to realize this fact.

As far as the "they cost more", well, that depends. If you pay full retail, sure. The TG is often part of those oil change specials at my local parts stores though, and the actual cost ends up being pretty cheap. And, as I thought I said pretty clearly, I'd take the Pure One over the TG--so that should make it pretty clear I think there are better options--but the end cap thing has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Bottom line as always, better filters than the TG can be had for the same or less money.


Well, that depends on your definition of better, and what you're paying for the TG, don't you think?


Originally Posted By: sayjac
Lastly as pointed out above, Fram is the same company that produced the Double Guard filter with Teflon in it.
31.gif
And still produces the HM filter with some kind of oil life extending goo. Not a great track record, and I sure don't want Fram picking the additives that go in my oil.


They're also the OEM manufacturer for Honda and Subaru, and they manufacture the EG filter, one of the best-constructed filters on the market. So it seems to me they make both good and lousy stuff. Maybe it would make more sense to evaluate their individual offerings rather than basing a decision just based on reputation? Those are my thoughts, at least.





Well said my friend-sheeple seem to come out of the woodwork when the 4 letter word is mentioned-I guess it's their chance to jump on the bandwagon with the little info they have found on this site. Especially the newbies with xx number of posts-pure brainwashing on the Fram haters part
 
What we seem to have here are comparisons of filters that are not similar products.Or are they really the same basic construction?

We have people wanting to compare Fram Extra Guards to filters that are made for extended drain OCI's.You cant do that.The Fram EG is made for the average consumer that changes their oil 3-5K miles.However,this may be what the filter makers want us to think.

The extended drain filters are for those that run their oil and filters for 7-10K.Or is this just Fram and other filter makers taking advantage of marketing?

The fiber endcaps keep causing people to say bad things yet all the while,they seem to forget that the filter element is made of paper or a paper blend.If the element can go for thousands of miles,then why cant the fiber end cap?The end cap isnt any more likely to fail than the element is,the end cap most likely will hold up better that the element.

Metal endcaps may be better if you do extended OCI's but,then again,they may not hold up any better than fiber.

It was pointed out that Fram makes Honda filters that are made for extended OCI's but that doesnt mean that they are really any better than regular Fram filters.OEM parts are not always better than aftermarket parts.

It was also stated that Fram was good at marketing,could it be that they know this and they know that people will pay more for a filter that seems to be made better,such as those with metal endcaps?

The metal end caps could be marketing and they are making money by offering a product that gives the perception of being a superior product.The endcaps probably have little to do with extending OCI's,the element itself is what a person should worry about.

There are several things to look at here.Is there really any difference in the make up of the various filters or is it marketing? The coler of the element,the way it is shaped,the amount of media.Do they really make a difference or again,are they marketing tools that are used to get the most out of a consumer because of a perceived construction advantage?

These are things to think about.
 
Quote:
It was pointed out that Fram makes Honda filters that are made for extended OCI's but that doesnt mean that they are really any better than regular Fram filters.OEM parts are not always better than aftermarket parts.
No again. The Honda filter is made by Fram to Honda specs. Those specs 'seem' to make it very similar to a standard Tough Guard filter. The fact that ONLY Honda recommends a filter, any filter, meeting specs 'can be' run two OCI's doesn't mean the Honda filter is an extended OCI filter. It means that Honda says one could use them for two OCI's, in a Honda only. Deductive reasoning doesn't say the Honda filter is then by definition an extended OCI design for ALL vehicles. Actually by the Honda definition presented, ANY filter could be an extended OCI filter.

So, the orange can anology as an extended OCI filter is apt because by Honda's definition and Fram's specs, the orange can 'is' an extended oci filter.
wink.gif
That's not my reasoning, but the presented 'Honda says' reasoning saying the orange can could be an extended OCI filter in ALL applications. But, I still haven't seen any extended oci canister filter with fiber endcaps.

All that said, I have no objection to the sheeple (term used above by one of Fram's biggest here) that want to pay more for a filter that clearly cost less to make. OTOH, I'm also not going to blindly defend a company that produced and produces oil filter products that mislead the consumer with scam products like the Double Guard with Teflon and High Mileage filters. I'll leave that for the biggest sheep above, that have it well covered.
56.gif


But back to the topic, my answer said the OP could run the TG to his standard owners manual recommended OCI. The TG just wouldn't be my first choice of filters costing the same.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Quote:
It was pointed out that Fram makes Honda filters that are made for extended OCI's but that doesnt mean that they are really any better than regular Fram filters.OEM parts are not always better than aftermarket parts.
No again. The Honda filter is made by Fram to Honda specs. Those specs 'seem' to make it very similar to a standard Tough Guard filter. The fact that ONLY Honda recommends a filter, any filter, meeting specs 'can be' run two OCI's doesn't mean the Honda filter is an extended OCI filter. It means that Honda says one could use them for two OCI's, in a Honda only. Deductive reasoning doesn't say the Honda filter is then by definition an extended OCI design for ALL vehicles. Actually by the Honda definition presented, ANY filter could be an extended OCI filter.

So, the orange can anology as an extended OCI filter is apt because by Honda's definition and Fram's specs, the orange can 'is' an extended oci filter.
wink.gif
That's not my reasoning, but the presented 'Honda says' reasoning saying the orange can could be an extended OCI filter in ALL applications. But, I still haven't seen any extended oci canister filter with fiber endcaps.

All that said, I have no objection to the sheeple (term used above by one of Fram's biggest here) that want to pay more for a filter that clearly cost less to make. OTOH, I'm also not going to blindly defend a company that produced and produces oil filter products that mislead the consumer with scam products like the Double Guard with Teflon and High Mileage filters. I'll leave that for the biggest sheep above, that have it well covered.
56.gif


But back to the topic, my answer said the OP could run the TG to his standard owners manual recommended OCI. The TG just wouldn't be my first choice of filters costing the same.


Funny, that you're characterizing me as one of Fram's 'sheeple' when I pretty clearly stated I haven't used one for over 20 years. Your own bias is pretty clearly showing.

-there are several oil filters spec'd for long OCI's which use fiber end caps, including Honda's filter and many euro cartridges. I never said it was 'the same as a Fram', because it's not! What I DID say is that a filter's capacity isn't limited by the material used for the end caps--because it isn't.Honda's Frame-made filter is simply an example of that fact.

-how many "extended OCI" filters use cellulose media and metal end caps? One (M1) that I can think of off the top of my head. Most after-market extended OCI filters use a metal mesh-backed media, and bonding metal end caps to a wire-backed media makes a lot more sense.

-no where am I "blindly defending" anyone, I'm simply stating (again) that maybe one should look at the individual offerings and make a determination. The TG is a good filter, and if it met the specs for someone's application--and they could get it for a competitive price, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Personally, I don't think a few extra dollars for a filter is a big deal, so I don't mind spending the cash for what I think is the best filter for my application. Not everyone wants to buy a $12.00 oil filter, though...

I find your attitude about this curious, in light of all of the bandwagon boostering of the new NAPA filter, of which there is pretty much no information available (besides the internal view of one single model cut open). We know a lot more about the TG filter than we do this one, yet it gets unqualified recommendations? It just seems weird to me.
 
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