1992 Accord R134a retrofit

[exranger06]

The AC in the Accord is finally starting to lose its charge. It was about 90 degrees here yesterday. I had the AC on full blast the entire 1.5 hour ride home and got vent temps of only 58 degrees, just barely enough to keep me comfortable. My Ranger on the other hand, has vent temps of 38 degrees and will start to make me shiver within 20 minutes and will make me turn it all the way down for the rest of the ride.

I've decided I don't want to stay with R12. It's too expensive and hard to find, and I don't want to worry about springing a leak and have all that money go up to the stratosphere. Yeah yeah I know, R134a won't cool as well in a system designed for R12 and might leak out more easily. Heard it 100 times. Then again I read about all these successful retrofits too. So, has anyone actually done the retrofit (particularly on an Accord like mine), and how was the performance? Is the decrease really THAT noticeable? I'd be happy with vent temps in the low 40s.

 

[rshaw125]

Don't bother with 134a. Too pricey and not as efficient as Enviro-safe.I put Enviro-safe in my old van 5 summers ago.Blowing 42 degrees last time I checked it. It would be a good choice for your old Honda.

 

[JHZR2]

134a is going up in price. Dont use any illegal/dangerous HC refrigerants like Enviro-safe, if you ever want a chance of a reputable shop working on your system ever again.

Unless you found and installed HC-specific fittings and installed them, you are violating Federal law. If there is a sealant in with this stuff, this will be determinable by any shop, and they will not touch it. No shop with a recovery machine will touch this system because the sealant will destroy their expensive recovery/recycle machine and it is a violation of Federal Law not to recover refrigerant before servicing. If you do not use HC-specific fittings I would not be posting your actions on a public forum.

Also, with HC refrigerants being a flammable, you need to check your state law. The use of flammable refrigerant in Mobile A/C systems is a violation of law in 18 states, at least the count was 18 a few years ago.

In the short term you have cold air, the long term will almost certainly not be such a bed of roses.

Find the issue/leak, fix it, and keep R12. It is by far the best choice. Price has gone way down.

The correct way to check for leaks is to pressurize with Nitrogen and four ounces of R22 ( which the EPA allows you to vent legally )..
This would negate any potential oil compatibility issues .
And would usually cost less than having the R134a evacuated by a pro with the proper equipment charging for their time...

Many auto parts stores.. if you get the $20 over the internet EPA license based on an OPEN BOOK TEST... will sell you R-12... you have to ask them for it...and many of the idiots at the front counter see a request so seldom they do not even know the store has it... but often getting it off Ebay is cheaper..

 

[JHZR2]

Now, the other part... I have a 134a retrofit in my 91 BMW. It is tight and does not leak.

To do it right though, you need to do the following:

-open the entire system, flush it out.
-replace receiver/dryer
-install the correct oil including the compressor sump if applicable
-change pressure switches
-change orifice/expansion (or at least flush it good and clean)
-change as many/all the o-rings that you can.

If it is the original compressor, it would be recommended to replace it too.

This comes to be a lot of work and likely over $1000. Start cutting back in steps and the chances for operational success long term start to drop.

The pressures start to go much higher, so depending upon the compressor design, you might really want a newer one... This is the case for R4 GM compressors for example.

As far as cooling, when it is over 95F on the highway, the AC doesnt keep up. It will be fairly cool, but wont be able to support the heat load. If you are uncomfortable with 58F, you should probably stick with R12. Mods can be made to improve, by for example replacing the condensor, adding a second R/D to add more working fluid, etc., but these all up the complexity and cost more.

 

[SrDriver]

Check with your local automotive refrigeration shop. There are several options one being a recharge with a compatible drop in refrigerant.

Looks like from reading the following article that R-134A is on the way out too.

Link To Article

 

[exranger06]

I was planning on doing this retrofit myself. I just ordered a manifold gauge set and I'm saving up for a vacuum pump. I was going to have the R-12 evacuated at a shop and do the rest myself. I think it's about time I learned how to do this myself. If I had known how to do this last year, I would've saved myself a bunch of money recharging my Explorer's AC. I really don't like shops touching my cars after a few bad experiences, so I'm always trying to learn how to do more things myself.

 

[mechtech2]

Laws apply to shops, NOT civilians.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Laws apply to shops, NOT civilians.

Umm, the laws absolutely DO apply to civilians too, but that's not what I'm worried about. There's no way anyone would ever be able to catch me, let alone prove, that I was venting R-12 in my driveway. There's a reason R-12 was phased out, and there's a reason it's illegal to vent: it's harmful to the environment. I have a friend who can recover it PROPERLY for free.

 

[Texan4Life]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
I was planning on doing this retrofit myself. I just ordered a manifold gauge set and I'm saving up for a vacuum pump. I was going to have the R-12 evacuated at a shop and do the rest myself. I think it's about time I learned how to do this myself. If I had known how to do this last year, I would've saved myself a bunch of money recharging my Explorer's AC. I really don't like shops touching my cars after a few bad experiences, so I'm always trying to learn how to do more things myself.


congrats. once you get familiar with the equipment you'll wonder why you didn't do this earlier.

I would also read up about your specific AC system. IE does it use a orifice tube or expansion valve? how is the compressor controlled? pressure switch or temperature sensors? If pressure switch, is the stock one adjustable? is an aftermarket adjustable (or r134a specific) one available?

Like others have said the more you do, the better chance you will have of a successful conversion. If you really want to go all out to try and get the best performance you can upgrade the condenser if your is tube and fin style. The newer parallel flow condensers have much more surface area so the can get rid of the heat better. Also you could add a pusher fan if room permits.

Also cleaning the evaporator will be worth while.

keep us posted

 

[exranger06]

It has an expansion valve and it has only one pressure switch on the high side of the system. As far as I know, it's not adjustable.
This is what my condenser looks like, I assume this is a tube and fin design? It's actually the same style as the one on my Ranger and Explorer, which both have R134a.

 

[qdeezie]

To make it cooler, you could always mount an electric pusher fan on the condenser that comes on when you turn on the a/c.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Laws apply to shops, NOT civilians.

Umm, the laws absolutely DO apply to civilians too


Regulated by what fed/state agency?

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Laws apply to shops, NOT civilians.

Umm, the laws absolutely DO apply to civilians too


Regulated by what fed/state agency?

The EPA states that any "technician" servicing an R12 system is not allowed to vent refrigerant. They also say that ONLY people who are 609 certified may service an R-12 system. So in this case "technician" refers to anyone 609 certified. So, if I get certified, it'd be illegal for me to vent it. If I stay un-certified, it is STILL illegal for me to even touch the system. So either way it's illegal.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/downloads/Section_609_FactSheet2010.pdf

Now, this has gone off-topic far enough. If you don't have something constructive to say in regard to my original question, please stay out of my thread.

 

[EricF]

honestly the difference in coolign between r12 and r134 is negligable. you'll barely notice.
but if you can find a shop with r-12 I'm sure they'd be happy to charge you less to get rid of the stuff.

It's not like back in the mid 90's people faught to keep their r-12 freon and shops were selling it for $90/lb.

I usually run a can of cool down for r134a, it's 2oz and what it's supposed to do is allegedly thin the r-134a so it flows better in the system.
I actually have noticed a small improvement in a/c performance with this stuff in the system.
it's been apparent in my wife's [censored] 01 eclipse, which was very noticable, the 03 altima, not so much. I haven't pun any in my Uplander tho.

 

[exranger06]

I picked up my gauges yesterday and they are NICE!

Mastercool brand, really great quality. I ordered a vacuum pump today, it should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[mechtech2]

No, civilians can pour antifreeze down the sewer right in front of a cop. A shop can not.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
No, civilians can pour antifreeze down the sewer right in front of a cop. A shop can not.


You know what? I DON'T CARE!!!! This is completely irrelevant to my question! Stay out of my thread if you don't have anything useful to say!!!

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
No, civilians can pour antifreeze down the sewer right in front of a cop. A shop can not.



Huh??

 

[MarkM66]

Mechtech2 is right.

Business's are regulated by government and or state agencies, as in OSHA, EPA, DOT, RCRA, DNR, etc, etc. Civilians/residential is NOT.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: MarkM66
Mechtech2 is right.

Business's are regulated by government and or state agencies, as in OSHA, EPA, DOT, RCRA, DNR, etc, etc. Civilians/residential is NOT.



Oh. My. God. Don't. Freakin. CARE!! Ok since you guys are practically INSISTING I vent it myself, I will! Would that make you happy?!