Castrol 10W60 Shearing Quickly

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Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Try to run Lubro Moly 10w60, maybe it won't shear so fast. ..


i've been wanting to try it, but in the long run the price is too close to TWS to switch...

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Well modified motors are different than stock. BTW how did you manage to stretch it to 7.0 Liters? I wouldnt have thought it was possible?


the sump on the S62 engine is bigger than the M62 + the manual calls for 6.5L or 6.9qts and with 7L i get to the MAX line, i burn/misread 400ml but never more

if you think 7L is too much, tell it to the dealers or the guys who put in 8 Liters
grin.gif


(*note the engine might take 8L on that very first factory fill or after a rebuild, but either by drain or extraction i can only pull 7L so i fill 7L*)
 
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Having owned two of those cars - an 01 and an 03 - I have lots of experience with the engine and the oil. The folklore about the engine and oil are endless, but the underlying facts are rather simpler.

The S62 engine is omnivorous. Any oil with an HTHS over 3.5 will work, although TWS 10w-60 works best. If I had one again, it wouldn't occur to me to run anything else (I've done that already and I know the results).

TWS 10w-60 shears to 17.5 CSt at 100C within 50 miles of installation. I have a UOA to prove it. It will hold that viscosity for 12,000 miles thereafter (got those UOA's too). That's just how it works. It is the best oil for the engine. In fact, as Doug hints, it's one of the best oils on the planet, period.
 
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Why are you using 10W-60. The recommended oil from prod date 03/00 for E39 M5's was BMW's 5W-30, when changed ring design. So something like M1 0W-40 would be more appropriate.
 
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Originally Posted By: jaj
If I had one again, it wouldn't occur to me to run anything else (I've done that already and I know the results).


rod bearings
vanos noise
or consumption

those seem to be the 3 deciding factors among those i know

Originally Posted By: jaj
TWS 10w-60 shears to 17.5 CSt at 100C within 50 miles of installation. I have a UOA to prove it. It will hold that viscosity for 12,000 miles thereafter (got those UOA's too). That's just how it works. It is the best oil for the engine. In fact, as Doug hints, it's one of the best oils on the planet, period.



that's pretty crazy...
does the castrol go through this whole process of thinning and thickening?
or
are different parts of the batch that much different in viscosity?


but that's also my reason for considering other oils - if the castrol spends most of it's life as a 50w - why not just use a 50w that will stay in class

*looking @ 20w50 motorcycle oils but can't find any with JASO MB*

Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
Why are you using 10W-60. The recommended oil from prod date 03/00 for E39 M5's was BMW's 5W-30, when changed ring design. So something like M1 0W-40 would be more appropriate.



http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx


the 5W30 recommendation expired with the last 03's free maintenance - the piston rings imo are an odd reason for such a change in recommended oil - only the piston rings where changed? - oil consumption means little next to bearing wear, vanos gears, cam lobes, etc etc
 
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Originally Posted By: JohnAnthony


rod bearings
vanos noise
or consumption

those seem to be the 3 deciding factors among those i know

...
does the castrol go through this whole process of thinning and thickening?
...

but that's also my reason for considering other oils - if the castrol spends most of it's life as a 50w - why not just use a 50w that will stay in class

*looking @ 20w50 motorcycle oils but can't find any with JASO MB*

...

the 5W30 recommendation expired with the last 03's free maintenance - the piston rings imo are an odd reason for such a change in recommended oil - only the piston rings where changed? - oil consumption means little next to bearing wear, vanos gears, cam lobes, etc etc


It's interesting that BMW has dropped the 5w-30 recommendation. The logic at the time was "we don't want to import 10w-60 to the USA so let's change the rings so we can use the 5w-30 that we procure locally". The original low-tension rings allowed too much consumption with the thinner oil. They did the same for the S54 engine in the E46 M3, and neither engine family actually showed any problems with the thinner oil, all though it was originally blamed for the spun bearings in the S54, which later turned out to be manufacturing problems unrelated to lubrication. However, once the decision was made to bring 10w-60 to the USA, all M engines have used it since.

The reason to use Castrol TWS is that it's actually a superior product. It is a rare case of a "real racing oil" packaged up for consumers to use. TWS' film strength rivals the ester racing-only oils from Motul and Elf and it's nearly triple that of Castrol's PAO-based 10w-60 Edge Sport.

While it's true that you might find another oil that's as good as TWS, you won't find one that's better. The same is true of the transmission fill (MTF-LT1/2) and the differential fill (SAF-XJ). BMW race cars built by BMW Motorsport have these same lubricants in them from the factory.
 
Originally Posted By: jaj


It's interesting that BMW has dropped the 5w-30 recommendation. The logic at the time was "we don't want to import 10w-60 to the USA so let's change the rings so we can use the 5w-30 that we procure locally". The original low-tension rings allowed too much consumption with the thinner oil. They did the same for the S54 engine in the E46 M3, and neither engine family actually showed any problems with the thinner oil, all though it was originally blamed for the spun bearings in the S54, which later turned out to be manufacturing problems unrelated to lubrication. However, once the decision was made to bring 10w-60 to the USA, all M engines have used it since.



i knew the commonality of 5W30 was a factor, but i thought it was more of a bi-product or this:

US owners did not drive or have the places to drive the car like european owners could hence no need for the tws. which is backed up by at least 1 tech, it is also how i see it and what basic oil knowledge suggests:

Quote:
I was fortunate to attend a BMW sponsored track day a few years ago and they had a factory engineer/advanced driver from Germany in attendance.
I and others were able to pick his brain through out the day and the 10W-60 spec oil of course came up. The real concern of most was the use of that oil in our Canadian winters.
He justified it's use in M engines when specified, for track days like the one we were currently enjoying and high speed driving when oil temps can easily exceed 150C.
He was asked to define high speed driving and he said sustained speeds in the 250 kmh range. When asked, what if you don't track your M3 and never exceed 150 kmh? He honestly found the question puzzling and answered "why would you buy an M3 if you didn't plan on driving it fast; there are other less powerful but more suitable 3 series choices available"? I told him my dentist who had an M3 was typical of most M3 owners in N/A. He likes the performance looks of the car, the status of it but he's never driven it faster than 140 kmh and typically cruises in the 120 kmh range. He found this 'poser mentality' very strange but agreed an M3 driven in such a manner would never see higher oil temps than a regular 3 series BMW and consiquently the regular BMW spec' oil would be more appropria
te.


*ferrari has a similar variation in recommended oil with the
550 vs. 575
&
599 vs. 599GTO
for the same reason i believe - less track use and more daily commuting to work & the golf course that doesn't require a racing oil even though both cars have dry sump systems*


P.S.
while i continue to respond to the castrol tws + bmw 5w30 discussion, my intention for this thread was to observe and discuss the shearing of Castrol TWS

as i saw it - it looses a weight class anywhere between 2000-3000miles

one person has seen it get to the edge of the 50w range after 50miles

so is there more to it other than it's got a big spread @ 10winter + 60W?
 
Originally Posted By: JohnAnthony
...my intention for this thread was to observe and discuss the shearing of Castrol TWS

as i saw it - it looses a weight class anywhere between 2000-3000miles

one person has seen it get to the edge of the 50w range after 50miles

so is there more to it other than it's got a big spread @ 10winter + 60W?


I doubt that anyone on this forum has any idea on either question - the mechanics of how it shears or the reason that its sheared viscosity is the right viscosity for the application.

My point is that the people designed the oil and produce it know that it will shear to a 50 weight very quickly. They're ok with that - it's done it since the 1990's. Maybe they were actually intending to make a 50wt, but the VI improvement technology they needed to use for performance reasons caused them to have to label it as a 60wt. Who knows?

As for the people designing engines to use this oil, they too know it will be a 50 weight in use. They didn't specify TWS 10w-60 because they needed a 60 weight, they spec'd it because it works after extended testing.
 
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