RLI Biosyn 5W-40HD in 3.0L Touareg

[wensteph]

This is a good analysis of an oil formulated a bit differently from the normal synthetic. 5,000 on the oil, 14,000 on the vehicle.

Iron dropping nicely and I'm hopeful aluminum will show lower in next report. The high copper number is because RLI uses copper in their formulation. I'll do another analysis and change to the same at 8K on the oil because I'm going to change the fuel additive to FPPlus to see how that and the continued cleaning aspects of the bio of the oil affects soot level and also because this is still a fresh motor. All fuel was commercial B5 or splash blend of B100 to get to B1. RLI summer additive used with each tank.

Code:


Iron 40

Copper 90

Tin 0

Lead 2

Chrom 2

Nickel 0

Alum 17

Titan 0

Silver 0

Calciu 2946

Magne 16

Zinc 1667

Phos 1409

Bariu 4

Moly 0

Antim 242

Silico 9

Sodiu 7

Boron 5

Potas 5

V40C 81.7

V100C 14.2

Flash 410

Oxid 78

Nit 8

KF 888

TBN 5.1

Fuel .172

Soot 0.07

Glycol 0

Vndx 180

Sulfate by product 92

Sample too dark for TAN

 

[gathermewool]

That's A LOT Of money for 5,000 miles...

You should be able to easily go 8,000 miles. I'm thinking of using this exact oil, but only if I can take it to 10kmi. Otherwise, I just can't justify that much money.

 

[gathermewool]

Also, how dark was it coming out? I don't see any other TAN numbers, so I guess all of your samples were too dark (black from soot?) for the analysis?

TBN seems good, but oxidation seems higher than I would have expected for such a short run (time/miles.) Is this to be expected while running RLI? It seems like TBN took a big hit for that first sample of the FF, but oxidation was relatively low.

 

[wensteph]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
That's A LOT Of money for 5,000 miles...

You should be able to easily go 8,000 miles. I'm thinking of using this exact oil, but only if I can take it to 10kmi. Otherwise, I just can't justify that much money.



I didn't change it at 5K, only drew a sample. It will be good for 10K intervals in my engine. I'm only going to change it at 8K because I want to see if the change in fuel additive makes a difference in the soot level. The 8K change is by choice, not necessity.

 

[gathermewool]

That's good to hear. I'm curious to see whether it does change anything. I was recommended the same additive, but still have a case of Redline Si-1 to use up.

How much makeup oil did you end up using during the 5052 mile interval, and how much did you add after the sample?

I've got to start scouring the RLI UOA to figure out whether I really want to make the switch. More than likely I'll do it just to see how it does. I've still got 5k+ miles left on this oil interval, so I've got plenty of time to do the back and forth.

Was it only the obvious recommendation of RLI that sparked your interest or were you aware of it before said recommender made the recommendation? What was your reason for going with them?

 

[wensteph]

I went with it solely based on the professional reputation and recommendation of Terry Dyson. I used his service and Blackstone on some VOAs of the Fuchs and Motul VW 507.00 oils. I decided his service was more useful than Blackstone's for what I wanted. I was still on the factory fill and he suggested the 5W-40HD was "best in class" oil for my engine. After a UOA on the factory fill and Fuchs (which performed well) I knew I wasn't going to stay with an inadequate 507 oil so it was a matter of why subscribe to his services if I wasn't going to follow his recommendation. We haven't hit his wear and clean targets yet, but should get there in this oil.

He's very high on the RLI products and considers their bio and synthetic blend and patented ad package hard to beat, but each application is different. His service is money well spent.

Edit: I've had to add no oil on this fill.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: wensteph
I went with it solely based on the professional reputation and recommendation of Terry Dyson. I used his service and Blackstone on some VOAs of the Fuchs and Motul VW 507.00 oils. I decided his service was more useful than Blackstone's for what I wanted. I was still on the factory fill and he suggested the 5W-40HD was "best in class" oil for my engine. After a UOA on the factory fill and Fuchs (which performed well) I knew I wasn't going to stay with an inadequate 507 oil so it was a matter of why subscribe to his services if I wasn't going to follow his recommendation. We haven't hit his wear and clean targets yet, but should get there in this oil.

He's very high on the RLI products and considers their bio and synthetic blend and patented ad package hard to beat, but each application is different. His service is money well spent.

Edit: I've had to add no oil on this fill.


I've been using Dyson for a while now, too, and he's mentioned RLI as well. I've been balking so far, but really, for curiosity's sake, to see if RLI can last 10k+ in my car. If so, then it would be worth it to me to switch.

The hard thing about using RLI, is that thier UOA usually show a little differently than most PCMO's, right? IIRC, TAN starts out high and TBN is relatively low, forcing you to look at every other oil property to determine whether it's holding up or not.

I switched to Dyson's RAW service to save some money. I miss his interpretations, but things he's previously pointed out are still in my mind as targets for my own analysis of the data, amatuer though it may be.

I've also been contemplating other fuel adds, but Redline is cheap on Amazon and high quality, so I'll stick with it for a while.

 

[wensteph]

My situation is a bit different in that the RLI costs about the same as the 507.00 oils VW wants me to use.

The VOAs I've seen on the Biosyn products had high TBNs. If Terry recommended an oil for your motor, I'd try it and pony up for one more premium analysis around the time you normally change your oil and see what his opinion is on the remaining life.

 

[gathermewool]

Regardless of specs, I think it ill advised for any turbo Subie owners to run lower quality oils - even if API-spec'd, and even if they meet Subaru's new SUPER stringent "synthetic" criteria - for any longer than 3-3750 miles.

I'm not sure I've heard of Terry recommending any other oil, to be honest. Regardless, I don't believe he'd put his reputation on the line by recommending just any oil. I want to go 10K+ OCI's and I trust him when he says RLI can do it. I'll give it two intervals, at least, and we'll see.

How did you obtain your sample, btw? Fumoto or dipstick suck?

 

[wensteph]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool

I'm not sure I've heard of Terry recommending any other oil, to be honest. Regardless, I don't believe he'd put his reputation on the line by recommending just any oil. I want to go 10K+ OCI's and I trust him when he says RLI can do it. I'll give it two intervals, at least, and we'll see.

How did you obtain your sample, btw? Fumoto or dipstick suck?


I know for a fact he recommends other oils, but it's fair to say he has a very high opinion of RLIs blend of synthetics, bio lubricants and their additive package. He certainly didn't push this oil. He said it was best in class for my engine, but since I'm in warranty discussed VW 507.00 formulations he preferred. I came back to him and said my next change was going to be the RLI. He doesn't recommend something unless analysis points him in that direction and he certainly has to consider his customer's resistance to using an non approved oil.

I sample with a pump through the dipstick tube. There are several out there, but Blackstone has a good price on theirs.

 

[gathermewool]

Subaru's lax oil requirements make oil recommendations pretty easy. Even still, recommending a 10k+ oil isn't an easy thing when it comes to most FI vehicles. I'm cautiously optimistic when it comes ti RLI, but, again, I have faith in Terry. The fact that he's seen 6 samples on three different oils - from group II to group III+ to group IV - doesn't hurt.

 

[SubLGT]

I've used RLI products off and on. They must be located in the boonies of Ohio, because their shipping costs are sky high.

I believe the "high" oxidation number is an artifact, because of RLI's unique chemistry?

 

[HondaMan]

To report a correct Oxidation number and to thus know if it is a high reading or not you need a clean FTIR from a virgin sample of the oil in question.

I've done business with Terry many times and I would fully expect him to foot the bill on this one if he did not have the proper information.
i.e. someone has to pay for the VOA to get the FTIR to have a sound basis to report Oxidation.

If a lab does not have the clean basis information from FTIR, they can only report back your number and we can all only guess if it is a high number or not.

For these specialty oils, Blackstone and others to not have the information in their database.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

You do know that wear metals are dropping due to time and not necessarily due to the oil. This is why UOA are really useless for wear metals on young engines .

Also it has not been proven that TAN is relevant. In fact it has been suggested that it not when in comes to automotive applications. One last thing to keep in mind is that ULSD isn't as hard on oil as gasoline which has higher sulfur in addition to the presence of ethanol. Less is more in this case.

 

[wensteph]

The VOA numbers are identified as "Reference" in green at the bottom of each category.

BMWTurboDzl, yes, I do know wear numbers are dropping because my engine is wearing in and I've flushed with several oil changes. I have not hit any of my target wear and soot numbers and probably won't for another 10-20K, soot sooner.