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#2298404 - 06/26/11 02:25 PM Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Hello all- Just picked up a 2009 Pontiac Vibe(toyota matrix clone) with 21k, ATF was brown so i did a drain and refill with toyota t-iv which is what owners manual said. Few days later I noticed dipstick said WS. Evidently GM had TSB correcting the owners manual. So I did 4 drain/refills with WS. Have searched, but all I can find is that t-iv and WS are not compatible, but can't find anything that says what happens if they are mixed. Is it because WS is full synthetic, so if it is mixed with t-iv then obviously you wouldnt have the long life that WS is supposed to provide. Or if the two are mixed do they degrade or something? Help, just need to know if running a mix of the two for a few days harmed the trans. Thanks.

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#2298429 - 06/26/11 02:47 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
Eddie Offline


Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 8496
Loc: Florida, Cape Coral
Who told you or where did you read that WS & T-IV were not compatible?
_________________________
CX5 Touring 2.5L :-)

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#2298458 - 06/26/11 03:12 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Eddie]
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
The dealer, as well as reading thru multiple threads on this site. WS is not backspecd for t-iv and cant be mixed.

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#2298484 - 06/26/11 03:58 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
229 Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Mid Atlantic
WS is thinner viscosity and group III+. You have replaced it all. Why worry now? The WS may turn dark soon but do not let that concern you.
_________________________
Eneos Dealer

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#2298503 - 06/26/11 04:32 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: 229]
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I was concerned because i had 1/2 t-iv and 1/2 t-ws in the tranny after the first drain and refill for a few days, and i need to know if damage was done or not. And yes its mostly all WS now.

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#2298522 - 06/26/11 04:57 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
toyotapriusguy Offline


Registered: 12/14/10
Posts: 138
Loc: California
If You knew damage had been done would You put a new transmission in or just drive it and worry Yourself cross-eyed?

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#2298561 - 06/26/11 05:39 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: toyotapriusguy]
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
No i don't know if damage has been done or not. I wouldnt think damage was done just by a few days of a mix of the two. I am just asking if anyone knows what makes the two not compatible as to why toyota did not replace t-iv with WS and says not to mix the two.

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#2298627 - 06/26/11 07:14 PM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
229 Offline


Registered: 06/23/11
Posts: 726
Loc: Mid Atlantic
You probably diluted 25% of the original total fill. The WS had been dark for a while because that is it's nature and you can not tell the condition by color. The synthetic WS is long-life and dilution with type T-IV takes away it's long-life status. It is also thinner than type T-IV so it will cause slippage in a worn transmission used to a higher viscosity ATF. Slippage and overheating is the death of a tranny. A similar senario would be to change the ATF on a negleted tranny that had become accustomed to the thicker ATF and find that it will not back out of the garage on the new thinner fluid even though it is the spec that is called for when routine maintenance is performed. I think your tranny did not slip or overheat during the few days of partial dilution and I hope you will rest assured. Jesse--ASE Master Technician
_________________________
Eneos Dealer

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#2298919 - 06/27/11 12:40 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
PandaBear Offline


Registered: 08/05/02
Posts: 13443
Loc: Silicon Valley
I'd just accelerate the next change interval to sooner so your tranny has fresher fluid and sufficient additives at all time. No need to panic as they are compatible (although T IV may not be as good as WS).
_________________________
"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah

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#2298947 - 06/27/11 02:39 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
crinkles Offline


Registered: 05/28/07
Posts: 5555
Loc: Australia
sleep easy!

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#2299011 - 06/27/11 07:08 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: crinkles]
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks for the replies everyone.

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#2299034 - 06/27/11 08:09 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
Rhymingmechanic Offline


Registered: 08/13/04
Posts: 1145
Loc: VA
A pan drain on that vehicle is 2.6 quarts, which means you only had about one-third T-IV to start with. You have been plenty diligent with 4 more drain and fills with WS. Consider your trans fully flushed.

You said the fluid was brown at 21k. Was that the only unusual thing about it? I bought a used 2010 with 28k, and when I drained the trans it was dark but also seemed to be full of grayish break-in material. I did a second drain a few months later and sent in a sample: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2291243#Post2291243

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#2299107 - 06/27/11 09:25 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Rhymingmechanic]
dkrivosheyev Offline


Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 118
Loc: FL, USA
I have new 2010 toyota corolla with the same transmission. It only has 3500 miles on it now. The factory fill was Toyota WS. After about 2000 miles I decided to replace the factory fill of WS with Redline D4 which has similar viscosity as T-IV. BTW, Dave at Redline recommended D4 for this transmission too. When I drained factory fill there was a lot of break-in wear particles in it, so I am glad I did it. After 6 drains and fills with Redline D4 I essentially replaced all WS with D4. Transmission shifts the same as WS, but it is now a lot more quiet. With WS I had a slight gear whine between 55 and 60 mph under acceleration, especially when the tranny was up to normal temp. I even took the car to the dealer and complained about this whine. It was very quiet (you really had to list for it), but noticable. I was told by dealer that this whine is normal, but I demanded to drive another brand new corolla and compare. During the test drive I heard the same whine around 55 - 60mph, so I don't know if all U341E do it, but it was the second car with the same noise. Anyway, after replacing WS with D4, all the whine was practically gone and almost unnoticable. The bottom line is, IMHO, you should not worry about having T-IV in you tranny for a while. The same tranny was used in 2005 Toyota Celica and T-IV was specified at that time. I thinik they switched to WS for better fuel economy and longer service intervals, but using T-IV (or Redline D4) will not hurt a thing, in fact, it should have better gear protection. Do you have any gear whine with WS?

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#2299135 - 06/27/11 09:43 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: dkrivosheyev]
Ben2009Vibe Offline


Registered: 06/25/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I did not notice anything other than the fluid being dark, which surprised me being it had only 21k miles on it. However some have said WS darkens normally. I cannot say I noticed any gear whine, the only thing I occasionally think is it sometimes downhifts a little hard on deceleration. Mine has the 2.4L with 5spd auto. If you have the 1.8, I believe it has a 4 spd auto, so ours would be different. Thanks for the input on Redline, may try when I use up the WS. As far as I can tell, both the 2.4 and 1.8 combos have been carried over for a few years, yet in 2009 the ATF went from t-iv to WS. Strange. Maybe it is only another fuel increase attempt, as many others have noted.

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#2299142 - 06/27/11 09:49 AM Re: Used toyota t-iv instead of toyota-WS [Re: Ben2009Vibe]
dkrivosheyev Offline


Registered: 04/12/10
Posts: 118
Loc: FL, USA
You are right - I have 1.8, so mine is 4-speed auto. 1.8 1ZR-FE is a new engine that was introduced in 2009, but it is indeed coupled with the old transmission that was previously used in Celica GT. 2.4 is the same engine that Camry had for years.

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