Gas prices shot up 50-60 cents in one day

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Wow! I wish I could drastically increase my pay simply by not being able to perform as well as I normally do. How many businesses are there where they're always guaranteed to make money no matter what, other than in the oil undustry?


Yes there is. Look at the banks. They have received almost $30 trillion behind the scenes in the last 2 years in taxpayer funded guarantees for their gambling habit and blatant handouts such as the $5 trillion they got a couple of years ago and another $7 trillion guaranteed at the beginning of 2011 so they can continue to do what they have always done.

"Big oil" is not even on the radar when you consider that as well as the raiding of the Social Security trust fund and the mismanagement of Medicare. They will steal all the pensions and the 401K's next. Just watch.

Actually, they already have but they will need to make it look "legal" by passing legislation to do it. The recent "reform bill" for Wall Street that was recently passed was the beginning.

There is nothing but hot air in the pension funds and the 401K's. Chicago's pension fund is $55 billion in the red and CALPERS out in California isn't any better off.

All of this affects the value of the dollar and the price of gas. Nothing is really worth what they say it is. I think we will see $6 to $7 a gallon gas in the not-to-distant future and it will STAY there. I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[grampi]

Trvlr500

I don't see gas in the U.S. being priced that high anytime in the near furture. They keep trying to force it over $4 and it doesn't stay there long because the economy simply can't support prices that high...

 

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Trvlr500

I don't see gas in the U.S. being priced that high anytime in the near furture. They keep trying to force it over $4 and it doesn't stay there long because the economy simply can't support prices that high...


You're correct, Grampi. Unfortunately, there are many that are trying to get it that high. At $7 a gallon the trucks stop and we don't get ANYTHING delivered.

I think it will get that high eventually. The question is what will they be willing to do to get it to $6 or $7 a gallon?

That is what worries me.

 

[Tornado Red]

I didn't see this thread when it started more than a week ago.

But it was at about that time that I read the Keystone pipeline from Canada had been shut down entirely BY THE EPA because a spill of 10 barrels of crude oil in Kansas.

A 10-barrel spill caused the 590,000 bpd pipeline to shut down entirely for more than a week -- assuming it was operating at capacity, that reduced imports by more than 4 million barrels.

So, before blaming oil companies or speculators, ask yourselves why a US government agency blocked the import of so much crude oil. And ask why the US government has been preventing expansion of this same Keystone pipeline -- apparently because environmental groups are opposed to the production of oil from tar sands in Alberta. There are rumors that the hold will be lifted after the 2012 election -- Mr Obama does not want to irritate the environmental lobbies before the election.

I wasn't aware of refinery outages in Illinois or elsewhere, but that was probably a different issue. But I know that one spur from the Keystone pipeline goes to Michigan.

 

[Tempest]

To be fair, it looks like TransCanada has had several small problems with their pipeline related to "cyclical fatigue".

http://www.canada.com/technology/order+k...l#ixzz1OW7A0Us3

 

[Shannow]

Tempest - "to be fair"...

If the pipes were Govt owned, and suffering from the centuries known problems of "cyclic fatigue", you'd be all over them like a rash.

These things don't just creep up on you if you are maintaining and testing.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
Originally Posted By: grampi
Trvlr500

I don't see gas in the U.S. being priced that high anytime in the near furture. They keep trying to force it over $4 and it doesn't stay there long because the economy simply can't support prices that high...


You're correct, Grampi. Unfortunately, there are many that are trying to get it that high. At $7 a gallon the trucks stop and we don't get ANYTHING delivered.

I think it will get that high eventually. The question is what will they be willing to do to get it to $6 or $7 a gallon?

That is what worries me.


I look at it this way. The oil barons of the world make their money by selling a product. They must be able to sell that product to make money. In order to sell it, it has to be priced so people can afford to buy it. At $6 or $7 a gal, only the affluent will be able to buy gas, and that isn't going to generate anywhere near the level of revenues the oil barons currently enjoy. Look at what $4 gas does to demand here in the U.S. Just think of what $6 or $7 gas would do to it. People would quit driving. This is why I don't think we'll see prices that high in our life times....

 

[Trvlr500]

I hope you're right, Grampi but our manufacturing wasn't forced out of our own country by accident and neither were many of the "service" jobs they said we would have. They were forced out intentionally by taxation and regulation.

The "oil barons" won't need to make money off of the U.S. anymore. They will have China, India etc. etc. It isn't about making money anymore it's about control.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
I hope you're right, Grampi but our manufacturing wasn't forced out of our own country by accident and neither were many of the "service" jobs they said we would have. They were forced out intentionally by taxation and regulation.

The "oil barons" won't need to make money off of the U.S. anymore. They will have China, India etc. etc. It isn't about making money anymore it's about control.

I'm not buying that the world won't need the U.S. economy. Most economic experts agree that if the U.S. economy totally tanked, the world economy would soon follow suit...

 

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not buying that the world won't need the U.S. economy. Most economic experts agree that if the U.S. economy totally tanked, the world economy would soon follow suit...

Yep! That is the goal and when it all shakes out the globe will be "rearranged" to the benefit of those that caused it. Just like it was after the fall of Rome and after the world wars. It's not the U.S. economy that will be needed. It's the 300+ million slaves.

Have you ever wondered, Grampi, why Switzerland has never been involved in any war? I can give you a hint. That is where the BIS is located.

Those that cause the wars and the economic hardships are never affected. They just get richer and more powerful at the end of every calamity they cause.

Our gas prices are just the tip of the ice berg and if you really want to find out who "the oil barrons" are the BIS is the best place to start looking.

As the U.S is incrementally taken out of the big picture as our debt and high energy prices consume us China will grow stronger since they don't have the environmental regulations and "other" regulations and restraints we have.

By the time the U.S. collapses "the oil barrons" will have "another" U.S. to make money off of and we won't be needed anymore. I think we still have some time left but our demise is imminent.

 

[Trvlr500]

Grampi, one last point. Look at the numbers.

China has what, 4 billion people (I could be wrong on that number) maybe it's 2 billion, India has 1 billion? Why worry about selling gas and oil to a mere 300 million when they aren't even allowed to use it? Then there is Russia who is debt free. They are ALL buying cars like gangbusters these days and they have NO environmental regulations.

China, India and Russia are also stockpiling gold in a big way while the U.S. owns absolutely zero even though they "say" we do. Carter sold all of our silver stockpiles to KODAK for around $1.95 an ounce way back when and our gold is now owned by the Federal Reserve as collateral for the "debt" we owe them.

Gold and silver are the only real money on the globe which is why the central banks and countries "in the know" are buying it up by the ton as well as copper and other commodities.

Oil is also another currency used world wide and while we are being cut off from drilling for our own oil other countries are here doing it. China doesn't need oil in their country. They are over here drilling for ours and they have friends in the Middle East they get it from. Like Iran.

Why do you think all of this is happening?

 

[Jimmy9190]

Trvlr what is the BIS?

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
Originally Posted By: grampi
I'm not buying that the world won't need the U.S. economy. Most economic experts agree that if the U.S. economy totally tanked, the world economy would soon follow suit...

Yep! That is the goal and when it all shakes out the globe will be "rearranged" to the benefit of those that caused it. Just like it was after the fall of Rome and after the world wars.

Bad analogy, because no outside forces planned the fall of Rome. It took hundreds of years of bad policies and bad decisions and bad leadership, but it was Rome that did it to itself.

As for WWI/WWII, in the long run it will probably make sense to consider them together, with the Second World War as a continuation of the First. I suspect that in the 1300s nobody was calling the Hundred Years' War by that name.

What are we worried about? China, mostly. And why is China doing so well? Because it has abandoned communism and adopted a capitalist economic system, mainly. In any economic competition, the the nation with the freest markets and is closest to pure capitalism has the advantage.

So, what is happening is our own fault, because we've chosen policies which are hostile to free markets, and we keep electing politicians who make it harder and harder for American business to compete in the world. I'm sure there are people who want America to tank, but they can only succeed if we let them.

I do not know if Barack Obama is the worst president ever. But I know he is the worst one so far, and he is the worst man to have in that office right now. That's because he's taking us in exactly the opposite direction from where we need to go. The House Republicans have the right idea, but are afraid to go far enough. It is not enough just to cut government spending; it is necessary to limit the power of government, which is very hard to do.

Even if we are successful, that does not end the danger. Because a great many people who have immense personal power within the government will find themselves outside of government, and they are not going to be happy with the prospect of spending more time with the wives and kids.

But again, just because it is hard does not mean we ought to do something easier instead. Not if we hope to survive as a society, somewhere near the top of the global ranking. If we can be satisfied with Second World status and wealth, then we don't need to do anything except continue along the current path.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red

What are we worried about? China, mostly. And why is China doing so well? Because it has abandoned communism and adopted a capitalist economic system, mainly. In any economic competition, the the nation with the freest markets and is closest to pure capitalism has the advantage.

I don't think China has a free market at all really, its probably more of an example of a market not just regulated by government but actively directed and managed by government. Large and small companies may not be owned by the communist party but whatever they want to happen, haappens.
Personally I think the main reason the US economy is going down the drain, is free trade with countries like China that have so many advantages in production over us. Why we let big business and our governments do this to the average joe is beyond me.

 

[Trvlr500]

Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Trvlr what is the BIS?


The BIS is the Bank of International Settlements. It is the central bank of all central banks. World wide.

 

[Trvlr500]

Bad analogy, because no outside forces planned the fall of Rome. It took hundreds of years of bad policies and bad decisions and bad leadership, but it was Rome that did it to itself.

I understand about Rome, Tornado. I was referring to what happened globally after their fall. This country, however I believe is intentionally being destroyed from within. The whole world is moving in and taking us over with the blessing of our own government.

We tell them what we want and they do exactly the opposite. The laws of the land dictate how they are supposed to act yet they do exactly the opposite. We aren't even being allowed to use our own energy in our own country. That should tip anyone off. We are buying our oil from many countries that are our enemies.

I find it hard to believe there could be this many people congress after congress after congress that could be so stupid as to get us into this position. This isn't an accident. There are hundreds of years of history to teach us that what we are doing is suicide for ANY country.

You don't have to be a historian to know the basics, either.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I don't think China has a free market at all really, its probably more of an example of a market not just regulated by government but actively directed and managed by government. Large and small companies may not be owned by the communist party but whatever they want to happen, haappens.
Personally I think the main reason the US economy is going down the drain, is free trade with countries like China that have so many advantages in production over us. Why we let big business and our governments do this to the average joe is beyond me.

China isn't a free market but they have moved a LOT closer and their people are far better off because of it.

And I take it that you would like to start a trade war with China?

 

[Trvlr500]

Tornado,

I see what you mean about China but they haven't really abandoned communism at all. They are just moving towards Fascism which is where we are.

There is no free market in China and their military owns most of the big companies. They have a growing economy because ours has been sent over there behind our backs over the last 30 years.

Think about it. Name one industry in this country that our government doesn't control through regulations and a swat team to enforce those regulations.

There is no free market in this country and there hasn't been in a long, long tim just as there is no such thing as free trade.. Any business owner that THINKS he has control over his own business only has to say no to government to find out different.

Look at the energy industry, the transportation industry, the food industry and agriculture. I've been in transportation for a long time. The government runs it.

It's basically a Shindler's List type scenario. It's a slave trade and it's getting worse by the day. 9000 trucking companies were put out of business back in 2007 alone due to the high fuel prices. Or maybe it was 2008. That wasn't the final tally either.

The owners are allowed to stay in business as long as they pay for protection and do as they are told. All under the guise of "saving the planet" and "making us safe".

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
I see what you mean about China but they haven't really abandoned communism at all. They are just moving towards Fascism which is where we are.


I agree with you entirely, except in one respect, and that is purely an issue of definitions. I believe that there are only two genuine political philosophies, enduring through time: totalitarianism and libertarianism.

Thus, in my view, fascism and communism are both totalitarian versions of socialism, with emphasis on their totalitarian nature.

Bill Clinton and Tony Blair claimed that they were for a Third Way, something in between freedom and tyranny. Again, in my view, that is just a slower path to totalitarianism.

I would like to point out that protectionism is not a viable policy. China is not beating us because we engage in free trade, but because we need to borrow so much money from them. Given that they obtain X number of dollars every year from the goods they sell us, they can buy US goods or US T-bonds. If we had a balanced budget, there would be no T-bonds for them to buy.

So this is not actually a trade issue; instead it is a fiscal policy issue and also a monetary policy issue.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I don't think China has a free market at all really, its probably more of an example of a market not just regulated by government but actively directed and managed by government. Large and small companies may not be owned by the communist party but whatever they want to happen, haappens.
Personally I think the main reason the US economy is going down the drain, is free trade with countries like China that have so many advantages in production over us. Why we let big business and our governments do this to the average joe is beyond me.

China isn't a free market but they have moved a LOT closer and their people are far better off because of it.

And I take it that you would like to start a trade war with China?

I think the U.S. and Canada are a large enough economy with enough natural resources that we could give China the dump. We still know how to make everything at the moment. Almost all critical infrastructure is still made here but that's being off shored more and more.
With their government tweaking their economy in their national interest they will always win over a true freemarket economy where businesses only act in their own interest.
I think we should trade with them but under the same environmental regulations and wages and benefits we enjoy, other wise its just shooting ourselves in the foot. If they can beat us on equal footing then good for them, if not I'd rather pay abit extra for my neighbors to be employed then help a few communist party members become billionaires.