Hi, I have an Echo PB-200 leaf blower. Its about 6 years old. I tested the compression and its 100psi at WOT with a cold engine (choke not set during test). Does this sound like it is within spec compared to when it was new? I am trying to trouble shoot the unit. Thanks in advance.
Compression spec. on Echo PB-200 leaf blower
- Thread starter Jeepster_nut
- Start date
- Status
100 doesn't sound too bad. What issues are you having with it? I've got the same blower. I love it.
Joel
Joel
100 is too low. It should have at least 125-130 to run properly. Some of the larger 2 cycles we sell come it at 160+. Are you doing the test correctly?
100+ is fine, although not ideal..
If I get a 2-Stroke unit with less then 100psi I usually trash it.
Pull the muffler and inspect the Piston,Rings, and Cyl for scoring.. If any significant scoring is present don't waste anymore time messing with it as at some pint in time it was run lean (not enough oil)..
Keep in mind that on a 2-Stroke eng compression is but one factor, I have seen an engine with perfect compression NOT run 100's of times..
Please share you issue's/symptoms and I'll try to help you out.
If I get a 2-Stroke unit with less then 100psi I usually trash it.
Pull the muffler and inspect the Piston,Rings, and Cyl for scoring.. If any significant scoring is present don't waste anymore time messing with it as at some pint in time it was run lean (not enough oil)..
Keep in mind that on a 2-Stroke eng compression is but one factor, I have seen an engine with perfect compression NOT run 100's of times..
Please share you issue's/symptoms and I'll try to help you out.
Last edited:
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Pull the muffler...
Good advice.
If there isn't any deep scoring, only superficial marks and light scratches, remove the spark plug and soak the cylinder and rings with something like LC20.
I find most 2-cycle problems are caused by stuck rings, which in turn is caused by carbon buildup in the piston grooves.
Pull the muffler...
Good advice.
If there isn't any deep scoring, only superficial marks and light scratches, remove the spark plug and soak the cylinder and rings with something like LC20.
I find most 2-cycle problems are caused by stuck rings, which in turn is caused by carbon buildup in the piston grooves.
Thanks for the replies.I tested it cold at WOT and pulled it until the gauge wouldnt climb any higher.
The blower will run- but after awhile it loses power like with a slight bog at WOT. Sometimes it doesnt do this at all. I started with the compression test but am stumped as to why it is doing this.
From what I can see inside the spark plug hole is some scoring up towards the top of the cylinder above the exhaust port. they are up and down scratches. Not bad at all though. How much scoring is acceptable?
The blower will run- but after awhile it loses power like with a slight bog at WOT. Sometimes it doesnt do this at all. I started with the compression test but am stumped as to why it is doing this.
From what I can see inside the spark plug hole is some scoring up towards the top of the cylinder above the exhaust port. they are up and down scratches. Not bad at all though. How much scoring is acceptable?
Well, without actual measurement, the scores on the cylinder wall can't be judged. Everybody has a different opinion of what is "bad" when they look at things. A machinist would say that any visible defect in a part is bad, where a carpenter might say it's perfect.
I'm not worried about your compression. Each gauge is different, and the volume of the line, the location of the check valve, and so on affect the readings. It's a tiny engine.
I'm guessing carb problems. But, always, always check the basics first. Change the spark plug, clean the filter, put fresh premix gas in.
The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting". Is it possible that your engine is seizing due to lack of oil or improper mixture?
I'm not worried about your compression. Each gauge is different, and the volume of the line, the location of the check valve, and so on affect the readings. It's a tiny engine.
I'm guessing carb problems. But, always, always check the basics first. Change the spark plug, clean the filter, put fresh premix gas in.
The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting". Is it possible that your engine is seizing due to lack of oil or improper mixture?
Last edited:
I put a new plug, fuel and air filter in it. I am using Stihl Ultra HP oil @ 50:1 as recommended. This particular blower doesn't use a gas cap with a vent built in, instead it has a check valve of sorts coming out of the fuel tank via rubber hose. I'm wondering if that can be the issue. I tried to crack the gas cap when it starts to bog to see if that clears it up but no luck.
When it's running well it runs like a banshee! The motor screams nicely, but when it bogs it's like I'm losing several hundred RPM's. I'll have to keep mucking with it.
When it's running well it runs like a banshee! The motor screams nicely, but when it bogs it's like I'm losing several hundred RPM's. I'll have to keep mucking with it.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Well, without actual measurement, the scores on the cylinder wall can't be judged. Everybody has a different opinion of what is "bad" when they look at things. A machinist would say that any visible defect in a part is bad, where a carpenter might say it's perfect.
I'm not worried about your compression. Each gauge is different, and the volume of the line, the location of the check valve, and so on affect the readings. It's a tiny engine.
I'm guessing carb problems. But, always, always check the basics first. Change the spark plug, clean the filter, put fresh premix gas in.
The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting". Is it possible that your engine is seizing due to lack of oil or improper mixture?
Much of this info is just not true, sorry..
Diagnosis is key and scoring isn't a matter of opinion it's a matter of function. Too much scoring (obvious when you know what your looking for) and the engine simply won't run. Prob is it can and often does have a good compression reading..
Pulling the Muffler takes 30 seconds and gives a very good indication of the engines condition.. If the rings are stuck from metal transfer, or if the piston & cylinder are badly scored in most cases the unit is junk.. Parts and labor will outweigh replacement costs on all but the best units..
As far as compression goes less then a 100 PSI and a 2-Stroke is pretty much dead.. Again this is not opinion but a matter of function. These engines require over 100PSI to operate, unlike a 4-Stroke that I have seen run on as little as 30 PSI.
BTW, any "GOOD" tech has a good comp gauge as it is a very basic tool and used often.
There is no "jetting" in the usual sense with these engines.. You do have a High and Low carb adjustment (some don't even have that) but generally speaking a unit does not go from running right to not running w/out a cause.. While a "perfect" mixture can make an engine run better it usually won't keep it from running at all..
It "could" be a carb problem but it could just as easily be a number of other issues as well? This is why "diagnosis" is key. Might be as simple as a carb replacement or rebuild kit, could be a bad crank seal, cyl base gasket, case halves are leaking, OR it might be a stuck ring.
While it "can" be a Spk plug or an A/F these two items are normally not the reason why a unit won't run right however they are often blamed.
Ethanol does create some issues but again "jetting" ain't one of them.. I see Ethanol eat the sealant on the welch plugs, and I see Ethanol make the diagrams stiff but I also see it blamed for every malfunction under the sun which usually ain't right either.. BOTH of these issues have specific symptoms however although neither is difficult to determine again "if" you know what your looking for.
2-Stroke engines are a much different animal then 4-stroke motors.. While compression is important you could have ideal comp and still have a unit that won't run. These units MUST be sealed and a pressure leak will keep the unit from running and cause the inexperienced tech to chase his tale looking for the problem. Pressure leaks are easy to diagnose by blocking the intake port, exhaust port, and spark plug hole. Pressure is applied through a fitting on the intake side and soapy water is then sprayed around the intake, exhaust, crank seals, base gasket, and case halves. Leaks show up as bubbles and the gauge won't hold pressure.. Many times I don't even do this test as a bad crank seal can often be detected w/out it..
To the OP, take the minutes time required and remove the muffler.. "IF" there is scoring present trash the blower and buy a STIHL.. "IF" the engine looks good internally but will not idle then there is likely an intake or pressure leak. Could be the intake manifold is cracked, or it could be a bad crank seal (which BTW I rarely see on these units)..
Your issue may be as simple as a bad fuel line, or carb diagram both of which are easy and inexpensive fixes.. If your not sure what your looking at on after removing the muffler take a good PIC and post it up.. I'd be glad to take a look for you..
For the record I am currently and have been a Small eng tech for almost 10 years and work on this stuff daily. I am the shop manager at a very busy shop here in Florida. We are Dealers in STIHL, ECHO, SHINDAIWA (now one in the same with Echo)as well as a dealer for HUSTLER, EXMARK, SNAPPER, and several other brands.. I am certified with STIHL, ECHO, HUSLTLER, EXMARK, KOHLER and have been to numerous tech schools from a variety of manufacturers over the years.
We fix almost anything at our shop if it has a small engine.. Everything from string trimmers to cut-off saws, Commercial ZTR's to pressure washers, generators, and everything in between. I've seen a pretty impressive array of engine maladays but even still find myself somewhat impressed by the distruction I see everyday caused by improper use and abuse.
Which BTW I am "NOT" implying is the case with this particular unit belonging to the OP.
Well, without actual measurement, the scores on the cylinder wall can't be judged. Everybody has a different opinion of what is "bad" when they look at things. A machinist would say that any visible defect in a part is bad, where a carpenter might say it's perfect.
I'm not worried about your compression. Each gauge is different, and the volume of the line, the location of the check valve, and so on affect the readings. It's a tiny engine.
I'm guessing carb problems. But, always, always check the basics first. Change the spark plug, clean the filter, put fresh premix gas in.
The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting". Is it possible that your engine is seizing due to lack of oil or improper mixture?
Much of this info is just not true, sorry..
Diagnosis is key and scoring isn't a matter of opinion it's a matter of function. Too much scoring (obvious when you know what your looking for) and the engine simply won't run. Prob is it can and often does have a good compression reading..
Pulling the Muffler takes 30 seconds and gives a very good indication of the engines condition.. If the rings are stuck from metal transfer, or if the piston & cylinder are badly scored in most cases the unit is junk.. Parts and labor will outweigh replacement costs on all but the best units..
As far as compression goes less then a 100 PSI and a 2-Stroke is pretty much dead.. Again this is not opinion but a matter of function. These engines require over 100PSI to operate, unlike a 4-Stroke that I have seen run on as little as 30 PSI.
BTW, any "GOOD" tech has a good comp gauge as it is a very basic tool and used often.
There is no "jetting" in the usual sense with these engines.. You do have a High and Low carb adjustment (some don't even have that) but generally speaking a unit does not go from running right to not running w/out a cause.. While a "perfect" mixture can make an engine run better it usually won't keep it from running at all..
It "could" be a carb problem but it could just as easily be a number of other issues as well? This is why "diagnosis" is key. Might be as simple as a carb replacement or rebuild kit, could be a bad crank seal, cyl base gasket, case halves are leaking, OR it might be a stuck ring.
While it "can" be a Spk plug or an A/F these two items are normally not the reason why a unit won't run right however they are often blamed.
Ethanol does create some issues but again "jetting" ain't one of them.. I see Ethanol eat the sealant on the welch plugs, and I see Ethanol make the diagrams stiff but I also see it blamed for every malfunction under the sun which usually ain't right either.. BOTH of these issues have specific symptoms however although neither is difficult to determine again "if" you know what your looking for.
2-Stroke engines are a much different animal then 4-stroke motors.. While compression is important you could have ideal comp and still have a unit that won't run. These units MUST be sealed and a pressure leak will keep the unit from running and cause the inexperienced tech to chase his tale looking for the problem. Pressure leaks are easy to diagnose by blocking the intake port, exhaust port, and spark plug hole. Pressure is applied through a fitting on the intake side and soapy water is then sprayed around the intake, exhaust, crank seals, base gasket, and case halves. Leaks show up as bubbles and the gauge won't hold pressure.. Many times I don't even do this test as a bad crank seal can often be detected w/out it..
To the OP, take the minutes time required and remove the muffler.. "IF" there is scoring present trash the blower and buy a STIHL.. "IF" the engine looks good internally but will not idle then there is likely an intake or pressure leak. Could be the intake manifold is cracked, or it could be a bad crank seal (which BTW I rarely see on these units)..
Your issue may be as simple as a bad fuel line, or carb diagram both of which are easy and inexpensive fixes.. If your not sure what your looking at on after removing the muffler take a good PIC and post it up.. I'd be glad to take a look for you..
For the record I am currently and have been a Small eng tech for almost 10 years and work on this stuff daily. I am the shop manager at a very busy shop here in Florida. We are Dealers in STIHL, ECHO, SHINDAIWA (now one in the same with Echo)as well as a dealer for HUSTLER, EXMARK, SNAPPER, and several other brands.. I am certified with STIHL, ECHO, HUSLTLER, EXMARK, KOHLER and have been to numerous tech schools from a variety of manufacturers over the years.
We fix almost anything at our shop if it has a small engine.. Everything from string trimmers to cut-off saws, Commercial ZTR's to pressure washers, generators, and everything in between. I've seen a pretty impressive array of engine maladays but even still find myself somewhat impressed by the distruction I see everyday caused by improper use and abuse.
Which BTW I am "NOT" implying is the case with this particular unit belonging to the OP.
Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
I put a new plug, fuel and air filter in it. I am using Stihl Ultra HP oil @ 50:1 as recommended. This particular blower doesn't use a gas cap with a vent built in, instead it has a check valve of sorts coming out of the fuel tank via rubber hose. I'm wondering if that can be the issue. I tried to crack the gas cap when it starts to bog to see if that clears it up but no luck.
When it's running well it runs like a banshee! The motor screams nicely, but when it bogs it's like I'm losing several hundred RPM's. I'll have to keep mucking with it.
These are notorious for having bad fuel lines and tank grommets, I replace both numerous times a week..
"IF" your tank vent/valve is not working the tank will pressurize and leak fuel through the holes in the grommet so unless it doing that I doubt it's the prob..
It may very well be the diagrahm in the carb, the kit will cost you about $15.00 and if you even the slightest bit mechanically inclined it's a very easy DYI fix.. You will "need" the numbers on the side of the carb to make sure you get the correct kit but most any decent sized shop should stock it.
Edit to add:
You "may" be able to adjust out the carb but there are limiter caps on the adj screws.. If it boggs out when trying to go WOT add a bit of "LOW" mixture and see if that helps.
I put a new plug, fuel and air filter in it. I am using Stihl Ultra HP oil @ 50:1 as recommended. This particular blower doesn't use a gas cap with a vent built in, instead it has a check valve of sorts coming out of the fuel tank via rubber hose. I'm wondering if that can be the issue. I tried to crack the gas cap when it starts to bog to see if that clears it up but no luck.
When it's running well it runs like a banshee! The motor screams nicely, but when it bogs it's like I'm losing several hundred RPM's. I'll have to keep mucking with it.
These are notorious for having bad fuel lines and tank grommets, I replace both numerous times a week..
"IF" your tank vent/valve is not working the tank will pressurize and leak fuel through the holes in the grommet so unless it doing that I doubt it's the prob..
It may very well be the diagrahm in the carb, the kit will cost you about $15.00 and if you even the slightest bit mechanically inclined it's a very easy DYI fix.. You will "need" the numbers on the side of the carb to make sure you get the correct kit but most any decent sized shop should stock it.
Edit to add:
You "may" be able to adjust out the carb but there are limiter caps on the adj screws.. If it boggs out when trying to go WOT add a bit of "LOW" mixture and see if that helps.
Last edited:
I'm not sure how saying it's no good to use the subjective method of viewing cylinder scratches is bad info. I like hard data.
Or how different compression gauges vary wildly on small engines. Because you know they do.
Or how starting with the "basics" is bad.
Or how modern fuels are responsible for a carb problems.
Or how the lack of oil can cause a siezure?
Or how a clogged jet can cause running issues?
Or how different compression gauges vary wildly on small engines. Because you know they do.
Or how starting with the "basics" is bad.
Or how modern fuels are responsible for a carb problems.
Or how the lack of oil can cause a siezure?
Or how a clogged jet can cause running issues?
bad fuel lines and tank grommets have been a problem on my Husky string trimmer and blower, seems they last 4 to 6 years in mine.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm not sure how saying it's no good to use the subjective method of viewing cylinder scratches is bad info. I like hard data.
Or how different compression gauges vary wildly on small engines. Because you know they do.
Or how starting with the "basics" is bad.
Or how modern fuels are responsible for a carb problems.
Or how the lack of oil can cause a siezure?
Or how a clogged jet can cause running issues?
I'll do my best to answer each point but first of all I didn't say any of those things..
As to the subjective data, there is such data.. It's in the tech books that show what the piston, rings, and cyl look like after a specific failure.. Do this stuff as long as I have and it's easily recognizable. There is no need to "measure" anything, if one score is big enough to extend through the rings it can be enough to ruin the eng.. I've literally seen hundreds of lean seized motors and can recognize if the damage is enough to ruin the motor in about 2 seconds.. Scoring, wiped pistons, or metal transfer is very easy to see.
CHEAP (China Mart/Harbor Freight)may very "wildly" but quality gauges don't.. Not enough anyway to make a BAD compression reading good, or Vice Versa. If I'm doing a Comp check and my one gauge reads 180, and my other 160 that motor is still GTG. 2-Strokes need good comp., it's just how they work, if I get a reading of 90PSI on one gauge and 100 on another that motor is still junk.
I never said starting with the basics was bad.. The OP says the unit runs, it just doesn't run right.. This in of itself pretty much rules out the Spk plug (although I've seen spk plugs do some very strange things). the A/F is important yes, but usually is not the direct cause of a poor running two stroke.. "IF" one is suspect of the A/F simply remove it and test run the unit. I have seen oil/fuel soaked A/F's MANY times and the unit WON'T run in this condition.. But this is generally a sign of another problem so a new A/F in of itself wouldn't fix it anyway. Now I will say that on a Push mower for example a really dirty A/F "WILL" absolutely keep that motor from running. I've seen them so packed with dirt and grass they simply won't allow any air through..
As far as fuels causing problems, I never said that either in fact I stated some of the problems.. But again using the OP's symptoms as a guide I doubt the WELCH plug has fallen out because when they do the unit floods from excess fuel and generally won't run at all.. I also clearly stated that Ethanol is often blamed for problems unrelated to the fuel because peeps don't actually know for sure what's wrong. Customers will easily accept the ETHENOL thing because that what everyone blames everything on.
Please show me where I stated that "LACK OF OIL" WON'T cause a Lean Seize?? I can assure you if anyone has seen what lack of oil can and does do to engines I have.. A LEAN SIEZE ruins more 2-stroke engines then pretty much anything else so you will NEVER EVER hear me say anything different.
Also please re-read my previous post as I did NOT state a clogged jet can't cause run issues.. You stated and I quote
Quote:
"The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting".
While I have adjusted carbs a thousand times times I have "NEVER" Re-jetted a small engine.. It is simply NOT required as long as the carb is clean and there are no other eng issues. On a 2-Stroke carb there is no jetting, there are mixture screws. I should prob add that I am speaking of engines used in mowers and such NOT small engines used in racing applications.
I can say I jetted hundreds of Motorcycle carbs during the 12 years I ran my own DYNO service, but it wasn't related to Ethanol.. Jetting is/was done to create the correct AFR.
While I will freely admit I don't know everything there is to know about small engines I do have a pretty good clue. While I I would gladly and openly discuss anything related to the subject PLEASE don't twist my comments or their context.. I always try to reply in a courteous, respectful manner and base my comments on experience..
I'm not sure how saying it's no good to use the subjective method of viewing cylinder scratches is bad info. I like hard data.
Or how different compression gauges vary wildly on small engines. Because you know they do.
Or how starting with the "basics" is bad.
Or how modern fuels are responsible for a carb problems.
Or how the lack of oil can cause a siezure?
Or how a clogged jet can cause running issues?
I'll do my best to answer each point but first of all I didn't say any of those things..
As to the subjective data, there is such data.. It's in the tech books that show what the piston, rings, and cyl look like after a specific failure.. Do this stuff as long as I have and it's easily recognizable. There is no need to "measure" anything, if one score is big enough to extend through the rings it can be enough to ruin the eng.. I've literally seen hundreds of lean seized motors and can recognize if the damage is enough to ruin the motor in about 2 seconds.. Scoring, wiped pistons, or metal transfer is very easy to see.
CHEAP (China Mart/Harbor Freight)may very "wildly" but quality gauges don't.. Not enough anyway to make a BAD compression reading good, or Vice Versa. If I'm doing a Comp check and my one gauge reads 180, and my other 160 that motor is still GTG. 2-Strokes need good comp., it's just how they work, if I get a reading of 90PSI on one gauge and 100 on another that motor is still junk.
I never said starting with the basics was bad.. The OP says the unit runs, it just doesn't run right.. This in of itself pretty much rules out the Spk plug (although I've seen spk plugs do some very strange things). the A/F is important yes, but usually is not the direct cause of a poor running two stroke.. "IF" one is suspect of the A/F simply remove it and test run the unit. I have seen oil/fuel soaked A/F's MANY times and the unit WON'T run in this condition.. But this is generally a sign of another problem so a new A/F in of itself wouldn't fix it anyway. Now I will say that on a Push mower for example a really dirty A/F "WILL" absolutely keep that motor from running. I've seen them so packed with dirt and grass they simply won't allow any air through..
As far as fuels causing problems, I never said that either in fact I stated some of the problems.. But again using the OP's symptoms as a guide I doubt the WELCH plug has fallen out because when they do the unit floods from excess fuel and generally won't run at all.. I also clearly stated that Ethanol is often blamed for problems unrelated to the fuel because peeps don't actually know for sure what's wrong. Customers will easily accept the ETHENOL thing because that what everyone blames everything on.
Please show me where I stated that "LACK OF OIL" WON'T cause a Lean Seize?? I can assure you if anyone has seen what lack of oil can and does do to engines I have.. A LEAN SIEZE ruins more 2-stroke engines then pretty much anything else so you will NEVER EVER hear me say anything different.
Also please re-read my previous post as I did NOT state a clogged jet can't cause run issues.. You stated and I quote
Quote:
"The ethanol content in the fuel today causes some problems and will often require "richer jetting".
While I have adjusted carbs a thousand times times I have "NEVER" Re-jetted a small engine.. It is simply NOT required as long as the carb is clean and there are no other eng issues. On a 2-Stroke carb there is no jetting, there are mixture screws. I should prob add that I am speaking of engines used in mowers and such NOT small engines used in racing applications.
I can say I jetted hundreds of Motorcycle carbs during the 12 years I ran my own DYNO service, but it wasn't related to Ethanol.. Jetting is/was done to create the correct AFR.
While I will freely admit I don't know everything there is to know about small engines I do have a pretty good clue. While I I would gladly and openly discuss anything related to the subject PLEASE don't twist my comments or their context.. I always try to reply in a courteous, respectful manner and base my comments on experience..
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I find most 2-cycle problems are caused by stuck rings
Actually, gasoline that sits and turns sours/varnishes ( whatever you want to call it ) is by far the biggest problem. I haven't seen stuck rings due to excess carbon for quite some time, especially given today's modern oils. It's gotten so bad that Stihl ( and others ) have begun distributing pre-mixed gasoline in a can that has fuel stabilizers but no alcohol, giving it a storage life of two years after it's been opened.
I find most 2-cycle problems are caused by stuck rings
Actually, gasoline that sits and turns sours/varnishes ( whatever you want to call it ) is by far the biggest problem. I haven't seen stuck rings due to excess carbon for quite some time, especially given today's modern oils. It's gotten so bad that Stihl ( and others ) have begun distributing pre-mixed gasoline in a can that has fuel stabilizers but no alcohol, giving it a storage life of two years after it's been opened.
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
100+ is fine, although not ideal..
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly. Most everything else you've said is on the mark, but this is off target. I doubt you remember this, but in the mid 80's Stihl experimented with single ring pistons in the model 041, big failure as they just didn't/couldn't compete with the two ring saws that had the higher compression. The point is that with the lower compression they did not run as well as the two rings models. The two ring 041s would test at around 150-155, and the single ring models tested around 130-135 or so.
Don't confuse the single ring I'm talking about with a dyked ring, that's another story.
100+ is fine, although not ideal..
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly. Most everything else you've said is on the mark, but this is off target. I doubt you remember this, but in the mid 80's Stihl experimented with single ring pistons in the model 041, big failure as they just didn't/couldn't compete with the two ring saws that had the higher compression. The point is that with the lower compression they did not run as well as the two rings models. The two ring 041s would test at around 150-155, and the single ring models tested around 130-135 or so.
Don't confuse the single ring I'm talking about with a dyked ring, that's another story.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
100+ is fine, although not ideal..
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly. Most everything else you've said is on the mark, but this is off target. I doubt you remember this, but in the mid 80's Stihl experimented with single ring pistons in the model 041, big failure as they just didn't/couldn't compete with the two ring saws that had the higher compression. The point is that with the lower compression they did not run as well as the two rings models. The two ring 041s would test at around 150-155, and the single ring models tested around 130-135 or so.
Don't confuse the single ring I'm talking about with a dyked ring, that's another story.
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing. That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience.. Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run. Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work. My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be succesful in the way I present it? I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
100+ is fine, although not ideal..
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly. Most everything else you've said is on the mark, but this is off target. I doubt you remember this, but in the mid 80's Stihl experimented with single ring pistons in the model 041, big failure as they just didn't/couldn't compete with the two ring saws that had the higher compression. The point is that with the lower compression they did not run as well as the two rings models. The two ring 041s would test at around 150-155, and the single ring models tested around 130-135 or so.
Don't confuse the single ring I'm talking about with a dyked ring, that's another story.
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing. That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience.. Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run. Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work. My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be succesful in the way I present it? I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
I agree, I've been selling and servicing Stihl power equipment since 1978.
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing.
Yes, that would have been good.
That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience..
Not realistic at all, I still think you're pretty confused about this.
Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run.
Nope, they just won't run that low.
Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work.
My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be succesful in the way I present it?
This has nothing to do with how you presented it, it has everything to do with the information you supplied is incorrect, no matter how you say it.
I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
I agree, I've been selling and servicing Stihl power equipment since 1978.
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing.
Yes, that would have been good.
That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience..
Not realistic at all, I still think you're pretty confused about this.
Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run.
Nope, they just won't run that low.
Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work.
My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be succesful in the way I present it?
This has nothing to do with how you presented it, it has everything to do with the information you supplied is incorrect, no matter how you say it.
I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
I agree, I've been selling and servicing Stihl power equipment since 1978.
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing.
Yes, that would have been good.
That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience..
Not realistic at all, I still think you're pretty confused about this.
Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run.
Nope, they just won't run that low.
Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work.
My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be successful in the way I present it?
This has nothing to do with how you presented it, it has everything to do with the information you supplied is incorrect, no matter how you say it.
I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
While I very much appreciate your input I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the compression thing.. In my experience "MOST" 2-stroke engines with low compression (100 PSI or less) just don't run.. I have confirmed this through numerous examples on my own as well as info noted in service schools and from other techs.. I will and have admitted there may be times when this isn't always true but there is no confusion at all on my part as I stand by my statements.
Your quote here "DOES" confuse me however as I'm just not sure if we agree or disagree??
Quote:
Nope, they just won't run that low.
It "seems" you confirm my statements yet in your text you don't?
It's all good though I'm as comfortable in my skills as I'm sure you are with yours. Discussion is always good and I don't expect everyone to agree with my findings and or opinions..
I felt and still feel the reference to 100PSI being "GTG" was wrong and don't want someone spending time and or $$ chasing their tale on a unit that ain't worth dicking with.. In the end I really don't feel the OP has a "compression" issue anyway..
Originally Posted By: FNFAL308
I'm familiar with the 041's and most all other STIHL equipment but no I don't recall ever seeing a SINGLE ring 041. Interesting pc of info however.. After working on so many diff things I've become a believer in STIHLs product line.. While I'm not saying they have the best product for every use they consistently build quality units and I can't think of a brand I like working on more because they are so good in their design and tech..
I agree, I've been selling and servicing Stihl power equipment since 1978.
Maybe I should have been a bit more clear with my reference to the 100 PSI thing.
Yes, that would have been good.
That number may not be etched in stone but it's pretty realistic in my experience..
Not realistic at all, I still think you're pretty confused about this.
Don't think I would call it a generalization as it's held up too many times for me to count but I suppose there will be instances when 100PSI will be sufficient for said unit to run.
Nope, they just won't run that low.
Most everything I test (in 2-stroke stuff) would easily make the 150 mark and much of it even higher.. Using your reference to the 130-135 or so PSI 041's these numbers are still significantly higher the 100. I have come to use the 100PSI mark as a measuring stick so to speak, it's one of many things I consider when evaluating a unit or diagnosing a run issue. I suppose I've become so familiar with what I do that the things I diagnose quickly can't be as quickly explained to someone that doesn't know how these things work.
My intention is to always share accurate info but I may not always be successful in the way I present it?
This has nothing to do with how you presented it, it has everything to do with the information you supplied is incorrect, no matter how you say it.
I might be wrong but if your in this field I would imagine this has happened to you as well..
While I very much appreciate your input I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the compression thing.. In my experience "MOST" 2-stroke engines with low compression (100 PSI or less) just don't run.. I have confirmed this through numerous examples on my own as well as info noted in service schools and from other techs.. I will and have admitted there may be times when this isn't always true but there is no confusion at all on my part as I stand by my statements.
Your quote here "DOES" confuse me however as I'm just not sure if we agree or disagree??
Quote:
Nope, they just won't run that low.
It "seems" you confirm my statements yet in your text you don't?
It's all good though I'm as comfortable in my skills as I'm sure you are with yours. Discussion is always good and I don't expect everyone to agree with my findings and or opinions..
I felt and still feel the reference to 100PSI being "GTG" was wrong and don't want someone spending time and or $$ chasing their tale on a unit that ain't worth dicking with.. In the end I really don't feel the OP has a "compression" issue anyway..
Last edited:
No confusion about what I believe the compression needs to be, go back and read what I wrote. In my second post I even put it in bold letters for you to see. Here, I'll write it again for you...
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly.
That was in rebuttal to your post of "100+ is fine, although not ideal.."
Remember writing that?
Now you're turning this around and trying to say that I'm the one that said they will run with only 100 psi? LOL
Someone needs to hone his reading comprehension skills.
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly.
That was in rebuttal to your post of "100+ is fine, although not ideal.."
Remember writing that?
Now you're turning this around and trying to say that I'm the one that said they will run with only 100 psi? LOL
Someone needs to hone his reading comprehension skills.
Originally Posted By: hate2work
No confusion about what I believe the compression needs to be, go back and read what I wrote. In my second post I even put it in bold letters for you to see. Here, I'll write it again for you...
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly.
That was in rebuttal to your post of "100+ is fine, although not ideal.."
Remember writing that?
Now you're turning this around and trying to say that I'm the one that said they will run with only 100 psi? LOL
Someone needs to hone his reading comprehension skills.
LOL, my reading comprehension is just fine thank you, and yes of course I remember writing that very statement.. Please note that I said 100+and in my very next sentence I state and I quote:
Quote:
If I get a 2-Stroke unit with less then 100psi I usually trash it
Nah,I'm not trying to turn anything at all around nor twist what I said. Only trying to confirm that "I THINK" we actually are on the same page here.. Might be you selectively chose my comments and didn't read them all? Is that possible?
In another post I clearly state and again I quote:
Quote:
As far as compression goes less then a 100 PSI and a 2-Stroke is pretty much dead.. Again this is not opinion but a matter of function. These engines require over 100PSI to operate, unlike a 4-Stroke that I have seen run on as little as 30 PSI.
BTW, any "GOOD" tech has a good comp gauge as it is a very basic tool and used often.
Yup, I saw and quoted your comments in RED..
Quote:
Nope, they just won't run that low.
I think it safe to say that throughout my posts I have stated that 2-Stroke Engines require compression over 100PSI.. And again I will state that I suppose there "MAY BE" engines that can run with less my experinces have been contrary to that.
Heck in another post I say this:
Quote:
CHEAP (China Mart/Harbor Freight)may very "wildly" but quality gauges don't.. Not enough anyway to make a BAD compression reading good, or Vice Versa. If I'm doing a Comp check and my one gauge reads 180, and my other 160 that motor is still GTG. 2-Strokes need good comp., it's just how they work, if I get a reading of 90PSI on one gauge and 100 on another that motor is still junk.
Does that clerify my position and is it safe to say that we agree that 100PSI is TOO LOW??
No confusion about what I believe the compression needs to be, go back and read what I wrote. In my second post I even put it in bold letters for you to see. Here, I'll write it again for you...
Again, 100 psi is not enough for a small 2 cycle to run properly.
That was in rebuttal to your post of "100+ is fine, although not ideal.."
Remember writing that?
Now you're turning this around and trying to say that I'm the one that said they will run with only 100 psi? LOL
Someone needs to hone his reading comprehension skills.
LOL, my reading comprehension is just fine thank you, and yes of course I remember writing that very statement.. Please note that I said 100+and in my very next sentence I state and I quote:
Quote:
If I get a 2-Stroke unit with less then 100psi I usually trash it
Nah,I'm not trying to turn anything at all around nor twist what I said. Only trying to confirm that "I THINK" we actually are on the same page here.. Might be you selectively chose my comments and didn't read them all? Is that possible?
In another post I clearly state and again I quote:
Quote:
As far as compression goes less then a 100 PSI and a 2-Stroke is pretty much dead.. Again this is not opinion but a matter of function. These engines require over 100PSI to operate, unlike a 4-Stroke that I have seen run on as little as 30 PSI.
BTW, any "GOOD" tech has a good comp gauge as it is a very basic tool and used often.
Yup, I saw and quoted your comments in RED..
Quote:
Nope, they just won't run that low.
I think it safe to say that throughout my posts I have stated that 2-Stroke Engines require compression over 100PSI.. And again I will state that I suppose there "MAY BE" engines that can run with less my experinces have been contrary to that.
Heck in another post I say this:
Quote:
CHEAP (China Mart/Harbor Freight)may very "wildly" but quality gauges don't.. Not enough anyway to make a BAD compression reading good, or Vice Versa. If I'm doing a Comp check and my one gauge reads 180, and my other 160 that motor is still GTG. 2-Strokes need good comp., it's just how they work, if I get a reading of 90PSI on one gauge and 100 on another that motor is still junk.
Does that clerify my position and is it safe to say that we agree that 100PSI is TOO LOW??
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked