Audi / VW FSI engine GC 0w30 UOA?

[GordonC]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Not sure why we're even talking 504/507. It's under warranty = do what the mfg says.


Because 504/507 is warranty approved, and is specified for the direct injection engines in Europe, and are shown by Lubrizol to cause 40% less intake valve deposit in direct injection engines, and his concern is intake valve deposit buildup on his new VW 2.0T direct injection engine.

PS - Dan, I posted a while back in your S4 oil consumption UOA thread. I just picked up my 2007 S4 from the dealer last week after they replaced the long block based on excessive oil consumption!

 

[dparm]

Oh, I thought this motor was spec'd for 502/505.

Carry on.

 

[dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Oh, I thought this motor was spec'd for 502/505.

Carry on.


All VAG engines made from 2007 onward (with a couple exceptions not relevant here) are supposed to use 504/507 in Europe, but the manuals in NA still say 502/505.

To add some confusion to that, many VW/Audi dealers in NA sell Castrol SLX Professional LL03 (a 504/507 oil) and use it in all the cars, and the label on that oil says it was developed in partnership with VW for all 2007 and later cars.

There is also some information out there from AOA and VWOA to indicate that 504 supersedes 502 and you are fine to use 504 in a car spec'ed for 502.

Now that all that's out of the way, all I can say is that I am more than comfortable using a 504 oil in a direct injection car that is spec'ed for 502, for warranty purposes or otherwise. It's hard for AOA to fault you when their own dealers are selling it for use in these cars, and the label says it was developed specifically for and by VW for these engines.

 

[dparm]

LOL, so I was right.

I guess I understand the logic of using 504/507 here but if this is a US car under warranty in the US, I'm inclined to say that 502/505 is what needs to be in there.

 

[dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By: dparm
LOL, so I was right.

I guess I understand the logic of using 504/507 here but if this is a US car under warranty in the US, I'm inclined to say that 502/505 is what needs to be in there.


Based on a strict and narrow reading of just the owners' manuals, in isolation, you are right.

Based upon broader information, including information from the manufacturer itself and actual practice of dealers providing warranty service, you are most likely not right.

 

[felixthecat]

Audis have a sitcker in the engine bay stating that only VW 502 oils should be used.
But what do they know!

 

[felixthecat]

Originally Posted By: dbrowne1

Oh, I thought this motor was spec'd for 502/505.

the label says it was developed specifically for and by VW for these engines.


BMW LL04 oils were also developed for BMW engines......yet BMW does not recommend their usage in the US in gasoline engines.

 

[GordonC]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I guess I understand the logic of using 504/507 here but if this is a US car under warranty in the US, I'm inclined to say that 502/505 is what needs to be in there.


Look at it this way - VW/Audi doesn't say you have to use a 502/505 oil, it says you have to use an oil that meets 502/505. That's a very important distinction!

Any oil that meets 504/507 also meets 502/505.

Does an oil rated for VW 504/507 meet VW 502/505?

Yes.

If you use an oil rated for VW 504/507, you ARE using an oil that meets 502/505 - so you ARE fully warranty compliant.

 

[glxpassat]

Keep in mind that the cars in Europe use variable service intervals with the 504 oils. In the US, fixed intervals are used.
If you are doing 10k mile oci's in the US, the higher TBN in a 502 rated oil is probably a better choice than the 504 mid saps oil.

 

[felixthecat]

If you use an oil rated for VW 504/507, you ARE using an oil that meets 502/505 - so you ARE fully warranty compliant. [/quote]


Not sure that that is entirely correct. VW 502 is a current oil specification.

 

[felixthecat]

.....look at BMW LL01 vs LL04 in Europe vs the US

 

[ikolbyi]

I beg to differ on the highway (H/W) miles theory, my 3.2 FSI is 550 miles H/W, 25 miles city on average per week and missfiring begins after 1,000 miles after every valve cleaning performed every 5,000 miles. If I streached the cleanings to every 7-8k miles, the engine at startup missfires so violently it feels as if it will drop from the engine mounts and the CEL is illuminated.

I might be a special case, but AoA can't seem to figure my situation out and the end result was 'sucks to be you, sorry'. They have been helpful in the cleaning of the valves however.

 

[audi_guy]

Originally Posted By: m6pwr
Originally Posted By: saaber1
. . . I have been testing valve buildup with M1 0W40 and it showed significant buildup in only 59 city miles! . . .


How have you been testing or gauging valve deposit buildup?


probably a borescope. Provision makes some relatively cheap ones. I bought one with both compliant and non-compliant 5.8mm diameter 36" fiber probe with 45 deg mirror & magnet screw-ons with hard case attachments for $180 including shipping.

Just arrived today so I haven't scoped my 2.0 FSI yet.