Change oil filter without ever changing oil

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I have a 2002 Echo with 165k suburban miles on it. For 140k or so miles, I have used synthetic oil that I have changed every 6k to 7k miles without fail. Now, I am burning 1 quart every 1500 miles.

Since I go through all of my car's oil between my 6000 mile oil changes, do you think that it is okay to change only the oil filter now without doing a complete change of the oil and filter simultaneously? I am going through a full change every 6k miles anyway by topping off with clean oil monthly.
 
I would just start using dino and change it at maybe 50% more miles, including filter. 1500 miles is not bad at all, I've had 2-3 cars that were worse than that.
 
I think that the combustion byproducts may build up under these conditions, and so I'd be looking to really get everything out every so often.

So I'd probably change to a lower-price oil, perhaps trying a HM oil, but perhaps just a regular option like PYB, VWB, GTX, etc... And just keep it topped and then change at 6-7k like normal.
 
Originally Posted By: EchoThat
I have a 2002 Echo with 165k suburban miles on it. For 140k or so miles, I have used synthetic oil that I have changed every 6k to 7k miles without fail. Now, I am burning 1 quart every 1500 miles.

Since I go through all of my car's oil between my 6000 mile oil changes, do you think that it is okay to change only the oil filter now without doing a complete change of the oil and filter simultaneously? I am going through a full change every 6k miles anyway by topping off with clean oil monthly.



Sounds like a plan to me.
 
Seems a little early for your Toyota to become an oil burner.

What synthetic oil have you been using?

I would just change the oil with the filter. You might even consider a thicker weight dino for your next change to save a couple of bucks. It might hang in there better to reduce your comsumption if you observe a 5000 mi. change interval.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: EchoThat
I have a 2002 Echo with 165k suburban miles on it. For 140k or so miles, I have used synthetic oil that I have changed every 6k to 7k miles without fail. Now, I am burning 1 quart every 1500 miles.

Since I go through all of my car's oil between my 6000 mile oil changes, do you think that it is okay to change only the oil filter now without doing a complete change of the oil and filter simultaneously? I am going through a full change every 6k miles anyway by topping off with clean oil monthly.



Sounds like a plan to me.


+2 Quality Dino Oils are all that you really need. They are fine oils like PYB, FS, QS, VWB, GTX, even some store brands like SuperTech Dino.
 
Sounds like something is wrong to me. Have you cleaned or replaced the PCV? That would be the first on my list. Next I'd try a cleaning with Kreen or similar to make sure an oil ring wasn't stuck. Lastly I'd try running a HM oil to see if it would help the valve stem seals.

On my Camry, I add a quart of kerosene and run the engine for 5 or 10 minutes before draining the oil. When filling I add 4 quarts and 1/2 quart of HM oil. That brings the level up to the full mark. I clean the pcv every other oil change.

Hope this helps, good luck!
 
Or he may have one those toyota engines that
werent all that good and developed a taste for oil.

- I wouldnt stop changing oil thou, just use cheaper oil.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Seems a little early for your Toyota to become an oil burner.

What synthetic oil have you been using?

I would just change the oil with the filter. You might even consider a thicker weight dino for your next change to save a couple of bucks. It might hang in there better to reduce your comsumption if you observe a 5000 mi. change interval.


I've had my share of Toyota's and with good succuss but, IMHO they can become oil burners soon in their life but still go past 300K+ miles in the process.

"Echo That", what grade/wgt oil have you been using 5W20, 5W30 ???
Maybe try a 10W30/10W40 or a HM oil in a 5W30/10W30, IDK!

Yes, I too would change to regular motor and not waste the synthetic, maybe even a bit heavier wgt than what the "Echo That" is currently using and change around 5K miles w/filter. I don't think it was the synthetic that got "Echo That" to 165K miles anyway.

It's tough to say really! You'd need to do some experimenting with different wgt oils.
 
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Sounds like decent consumption for an older Toyota 1.5L - they burn more oil than Toyota's larger engines.

I'd still change the oil, but i would switch to a cheaper conventional oil, and go about 7500 on a change.
 
If you stay with synthetic, I think 12-14k is reasonable considering that you would be adding 8-9 quarts during that time. Seems like alot of synthetic users push their oil that far only adding 1-2 quarts of makeup oil with no problems. If you go with dino, get the cheapest SN you can find at the time and do 8-10K changes. The additional oil will keep the add pack strong and the TBN up, should be able to handle it easily.
 
Combustion byproducts and other forms of contaminants enter the oil via various means. The oil is leaving your engine by being burned...Those contaminants are not leaving your engine by being burned and will circulate in the oil until it is drained.

Find the cause of your burning/leaking and fix it....and continue to change your oil. OCI and type are up to you...but change it...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Combustion byproducts and other forms of contaminants enter the oil via various means. The oil is leaving your engine by being burned...Those contaminants are not leaving your engine by being burned and will circulate in the oil until it is drained.

Find the cause of your burning/leaking and fix it....and continue to change your oil. OCI and type are up to you...but change it...


I disagree, most of the contaminants will be suspended in the oil and will go wherever the oil flows... True the contaminants will build, but it will be to a average point that will be reduced each time oil is added, then they will build to approx same average high when level becomes low...
 
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Combustion byproducts and other forms of contaminants enter the oil via various means. The oil is leaving your engine by being burned...Those contaminants are not leaving your engine by being burned and will circulate in the oil until it is drained.

Find the cause of your burning/leaking and fix it....and continue to change your oil. OCI and type are up to you...but change it...


I disagree, most of the contaminants will be suspended in the oil and will go wherever the oil flows... True the contaminants will build, but it will be to a average point that will be reduced each time oil is added, then they will build to approx same average high when level becomes low...


Hmmm...OK, If it were leaking out, I would buy the contaminants going with it, drop by drop...

But he's burning, not leaking, one QT every 1,500 miles...and your contention is that the same thing happens to the oil when it's being burned...that, on a very fine scale, as literally molecules get past the rings or valve guides, that the additives and contaminants in suspension go with the oil on the same path? Including particulates? And that the contamination will build to a roughly steady-state that goes up slightly as oil is burned and down slightly as it is added?

OK, so let's take that as the way it happens...then, the question becomes: is that steady state level of contamination above or below the oil's ability to handle it? Put another way: does the oil settle to a steady state of contamination with a TBN above 1.0 (acceptable) or below 1.0 (unacceptable)? There are more factors here than just burn/replace rate...in an engine with this high mileage, there is the rate of contamination to consider as well...

I would think that only a UOA would give you the true answer for the oil's health at its steady-state...but changing it would ensure that it remains within the acceptable range of contamination...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14

But he's burning, not leaking, one QT every 1,500 miles...and your contention is that the same thing happens to the oil when it's being burned...that, on a very fine scale, as literally molecules get past the rings or valve guides, that the additives and contaminants in suspension go with the oil on the same path? Including particulates? And that the contamination will build to a roughly steady-state that goes up slightly as oil is burned and down slightly as it is added?

Yep that's the way it happens, has been discussed here on prior occasions, a oil burning engine is not a mini refinery that removes particulates...

Originally Posted By: Astro14

I would think that only a UOA would give you the true answer for the oil's health at its steady-state...but changing it would ensure that it remains within the acceptable range of contamination...

No doubt true...

If the engine has worn piston rings and is suffering from excessive blowby, the oil may well be burned enough that it should be changed occasionally... On the flip side, if the oil is being used due to bad valve stem seals, at 1500 mi to a qt it may never need changed again...
 
Any way oil can leave an engine, contaminants and combustion byproducts can get into it. Keep changing it but use something cheaper so it doesn't bite the wallet as much.
 
Sorry about not getting back sooner...

I've been using SuperTech 5w30 Full Synthetic and SuperTech Filters or NAPA 5w30 Full Synthetic with a NAPA Gold filter. Quite a contrast, yes, but I can find good prices, sometimes free things, once in a while.

Based on the feedback that I've gotten, I'm going to try a 10w40 high mileage oil at the next full change in 3500 miles and see what happens.

Also, right now I'll check the radiator to see if the coolant is foamy or brown to rule out that I've got a bad head gasket.

One last thing is that I'll check the color of the exhaust from the first crank-up in the mornings to rule out a blowby problem.

Any other ideas would be appreciated. Car needs to last me. Mileage is fantastic, and I can park it on a postage stamp.
 
2002 Toyota Echo sedan, automatic, 1.5L engine

Here's an update 9 years after my original post in this thread. (Wow, how time flies.)

I'm at 303K miles now, but I've been driving only 900 miles monthly for the last 4 years. Burning 1 quart every 1000 suburban miles.

I have used a buffet of different oils and filters. The result is consistent - 1 quart per 1000 miles goes right out the tailpipe. I drive 30 miles daily. White exhaust on start-up in the mornings. I change the oil and filter in the spring and change only the filter in the fall. Things seem fine.

I believe strongly that I'm blowing oil past the rings. Since I burn 1 qt. per month, I'm doing an oil change every 3.5 months.
 
Originally Posted by EchoThat300K
2002 Toyota Echo sedan, automatic, 1.5L engine

Here's an update 9 years after my original post in this thread. (Wow, how time flies.)

I'm at 303K miles now, but I've been driving only 900 miles monthly for the last 4 years. Burning 1 quart every 1000 suburban miles.

I have used a buffet of different oils and filters. The result is consistent - 1 quart per 1000 miles goes right out the tailpipe. I drive 30 miles daily. White exhaust on start-up in the mornings. I change the oil and filter in the spring and change only the filter in the fall. Things seem fine.

I believe strongly that I'm blowing oil past the rings. Since I burn 1 qt. per month, I'm doing an oil change every 3.5 months.

Congrats on keeping that little engine going for 303k and almost 20 years.
 
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