New FUCHS Oil Formulation (XTL)

[CATERHAM]

Yes I'm not able to open the file either.

If the VI is 172 that's a significant improvement to the 160 of the previous 0W-20 formulation.
Keep in mind this is acheived without the aid of VII's so it's not fair to compare to the Toyota and Honda GP III based 0W-20's which attain their high VI's through the use of VII's and they shear by design.

A VI of 172 without the use of VII's is very high indeed; higher than RL's 0W-20 (VI 166) but not quite as high as Motul 300V 0W-20 (VI 177).

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Yes I'm not able to open the file either.


I dloaded it via the rapidshare link. The document is in....Polish?

But one can easily discern the few PDS stats at the end of the document.

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Keep in mind this is acheived without the aid of VII's so it's not fair to compare to the Toyota and Honda GP III based 0W-20's


CATERHAM can you refresh my memory i.e. how do know that this oil achieves the 172 VI w/o the use of VIIs?

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


CATERHAM can you refresh my memory i.e. how do know that this oil achieves the 172 VI w/o the use of VIIs?

Well I can't read Polish, but in the previous 160 VI formulation Fuchs made a point of mentioning it contained no VII's so I'm assuming since this oil is marketed in part as a racing oil, the XTL also contains no VII's.
I'm also sure Motul 300V is it's targeted competition and Motul stresses the "0 shear loss" of their 0W-20 racing oil.

The spec's for the Fuchs Titan GT-1 XTL 0W-20 are:
KV40 45.7cSt
KV100 8.7cSt
V1 172
Flash Pt 230C

Since the original formulation had a KV100 of 8.9cSt (not the most recent formulation, that was 8.3cSt) and a HTHS vis of 2.95cP I suspect the XTL version has a HTHS vis of 2.85cP to 2.90cP.

So this oil is noticeably heavier than Motul (KV100 8.0cSt HTHS 6.8cP).

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM


CATERHAM can you refresh my memory i.e. how do know that this oil achieves the 172 VI w/o the use of VIIs?

Well I can't read Polish, but in the previous 160 VI formulation Fuchs made a point of mentioning it contained no VII's


Okay. That makes sense that the XTL should be formulated similarly.

 

[unDummy]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: unDummy
Fuchs is not trying to catch up with anyone. I wonder how long will it take for Mobil1, Castrol, Valvoline, SOPUS... to come up with a reduced zinc oil.


FUCHS has had a no zinc formula for so many years.



Zinc-free 0w20 was available for over a decade now.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: unDummy
Fuchs is not trying to catch up with anyone. I wonder how long will it take for Mobil1, Castrol, Valvoline, SOPUS... to come up with a reduced zinc oil.


FUCHS has had a no zinc formula for so many years.



Zinc-free 0w20 was available for over a decade now.

Isn't that what I said....or were you just being more specific i.e. the decade bit?

 

[62Lincoln]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
I have looked similarly but still nothing that I can find on line. I am particularly interested in the VI of this new XTL formulation.


The VI for 5W 30 is 163. Here's a sheet with at least a little info: https://eurocampers.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/TITANGT15W-30.pdf

Not sure how good the info is since I don't know if the DIN standards are the same/close to ASTM.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: 62Lincoln
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
I have looked similarly but still nothing that I can find on line. I am particularly interested in the VI of this new XTL formulation.


The VI for 5W 30 is 163. Here's a sheet with at least a little info: https://eurocampers.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/TITANGT15W-30.pdf

Not sure how good the info is since I don't know if the DIN standards are the same/close to ASTM.


Yes I have seen this PDS before but this isn't the new XTL formulation. (Notice the date as being 2008).

 

[62Lincoln]

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: 62Lincoln
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
I have looked similarly but still nothing that I can find on line. I am particularly interested in the VI of this new XTL formulation.


The VI for 5W 30 is 163. Here's a sheet with at least a little info: https://eurocampers.3dcartstores.com/assets/images/TITANGT15W-30.pdf

Not sure how good the info is since I don't know if the DIN standards are the same/close to ASTM.


Yes I have seen this PDS before but this isn't the new XTL formulation. (Notice the date as being 2008).


Sorry about that - I'll keep looking.

 

[Pidziek]

You can use the translator.
I do not have a PDF in another language.
XTL is clearly improved oil composition.

Google translator is not bad.

 

[maersk]

Why do you have to fill out a Request Form for the TDS or other product information?

Name *
Job Title *
Company Name *
Address Line 1 *
Address Line 2
Town / City *
Post Code *
Country *
Telephone *
Fax
Email *
Message *

* denotes a required field and must have an entry.

What, they can afford to pick and choose their customers and only sell to those they deem worthy? They must not need the business that bad.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Pidziek
You can use the translator.
I do not have a PDF in another language.
XTL is clearly improved oil composition.

Google translator is not bad.



I am just surprised that this PDF is not available on FUCHS Germany website.

 

[wlyszkow]

Try using this in google:

titan pdf site:http://www.fuchs-oil.ru

and you will get links to all pdfs with full info - in Russian but readable.. ;-)

Fuchs 0W-20 has Noack ~7,5% and Flashpoint at 230C, HTHS=2,95

Good!

What I don't like are:
Pour point at -45C (only... especially for 0W-20)
CCS at -35C = 6140cP
TBN=8

this is worse than e.g. AMSOIL 0W-20 ASM and it seems that GTL is still not so good for winter as PAO.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: wlyszkow
Try using this in google:

titan pdf site:http://www.fuchs-oil.ru


As far as I can see these are not PDS for the new XTL formula.

 

[Izb]

PDS: http://www.fuchs-oil.ru/upload/iblock/6c3/TITAN GT1 0w20 ru.pdf - current PDS

 

[skyship]

FUCHS might be made in Germany, but very few Germans use it and they are export orientated. Their advertising outside of Germany seems very dubious, as I would like to know of a car made in Germany that has a dealership that recommends it for their engines. They might be making some special factory break in oils, but that is just because they are cheap, but after the break in oil is changed the dealers use a more expensive oil.
The 3 big oil companies in German in oder of sales are Liqui Moly, Castrol, Mobil and Esso.

Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
http://www.fuchslubricants.com/index.php?calling=titanxtl

FUCHS Presents Groundbreaking New Engine Oil Technology

Faster, stronger, better for the engine: The new FUCHS XTL™ engine oil technology with its extremely high Viscosity Index* and outstanding ageing stability ensures even faster oil circulation and lower fuel consumption.

Advanced engine oils for cars which meet the demands of the engine manufacturers already offer very high performance levels. But the stresses on engine oils are increasing, for example as a result of downsized engine designs. And the climatic conditions in which engines must perform reliably are getting more extreme. Furthermore, fuel-saving technologies such as Stop-Start Systems make additional demands on the starting characteristics and lubrication reliability of the engine oil. The load on the engine oil increases noticeably over the entire manufacture’s recommended oil change interval. It is increasingly important that the oil circulates rapidly to the areas where it is needed.

Good reasons for FUCHS, the leading German automotive factory-fill specialist, to develop a new engine oil technology which offers additional, long-term performance reserves. The decisive technological advance of this new base oil technology is the optimised Viscosity-Temperature behaviour. Compared to conventional base oils, the new XTL™ technology offers a particularly high Viscosity Index. This means very low temperature-related fluctuations in viscosity and outstanding performance potential in extremely hot and extremely cold ambient conditions.

* Oils with a low viscosity index show stronger temperature-related viscosity change than oils with a high viscosity index.

Performance was tested in a complex series of tests: For example, an engine oil with today’s conventional SAE 5W-30 technology was tested against an engine oil of the same viscosity but based on the new XTL™-technology in a refrigerated chamber at –27 °C to examine the corresponding start-up behaviour. All-in-all, the tests confirmed the significant benefits of XTL™ engine oil technology compared to conventional SAE 5W-30 engine oils:

Easier cold start-ups:
Up to 55 % faster oil circulation and up to 35 % faster start-ups

Lower fuel consumption:
Up to 1.7 % additional reductions in fuel consumption

Lower oil consumption:
Up to 18 % lower

Improved ageing stability:
38 % lower viscosity increase. Thus greater performance and operational reliability over the whole oil change interval.

Differing somewhat in specifications but all approved by leading engine manufacturers, the Premium engine oils TITAN GT1 SAE 0W-20, TITAN GT1 PRO FLEX SAE 5W-30, GT1 PRO C-3 SAE 5W-30 and TITAN GT1 SAE 5W-40 are all formulated with the new XTL™ technology.

 

[Izb]

Specification of new(XTL )0W-20

TITAN GT1 SAE 0W-20
Premium Performance Engine Oil with new XTL-technology in path-breaking viscosity class and
globally unique Zinc-free Additive Technology, for high performance cars with gasoline and diesel
engines. Specially designed for sportive driving and maximum power output. Extreme fuel-economy
characteristics. Excellent cold starting behaviour. Outstanding performance reserves.
Description
TITAN GT1 0W-20 is one of the most innovative
engine oils worldwide. The unique formulation
combines fully synthetic esters with XTL-base oils in
conjunction with the unique zinc-free Fuchs-additive
technology. The innovative XTL-Technology offers
highest performance over the full temperature range
from very low up to very high temperatures. The
unique lubrication properties of XTL-Technology
offer significant benefits in highly stressed engines,
especially also in latest downsized aggregates or
engines with Stop-Start-Systems. Engines with a
high power density enjoy reliable lubrication and
start easier and quicker. TITAN GT1 0W-20 reduces
friction and supplies first class wear protection.
TITAN GT1 0W-20 provides les fuel consumption
and thus less CO2 emissions, alternatively higher
engine power output.
Application
TITAN GT1 0W-20 can be used for gasoline and
diesel engines both with or without exhaust gas after
treatment systems, such as catalysts or particulate
traps. Also the product can be applied in many
vehicles of Asian manufacturers if the use of a C2
engine oil is specified. TITAN GT1 0W-20 may only
be used in diesel engines when also low sulphur
diesel fuel is being used. TITAN GT1 0W-20 is
miscible and compatible with conventional branded
engine oils. However, mixing with other engine oils
should be avoided in order to fully utilize the
product’s benefits. A complete oil change is
recommended when converting to TITAN GT1 0W-
20. For information on product safety and proper
disposal please refer to the latest Material Safety
Data Sheet.
Advantages/Benefits
· At cold start oil distribution time is significantly lower
and engine start takes place quicker.
· Due to XTL-Technology even further improved fuel
economy at the same SAE-viscosity level or
alternatively increased power output
· lower oil consumption offered by XTL-technology
· Improved ageing stability due to XTL-Technology
· Prevents the exhaust gas after treatment from
damage
· Extremely shear stable
· Can be used for extended drain intervals
· Durable also in high speed driving and high
outside temperatures
· Best wear protection at all operating conditions
Specifications
· -
Approvals
· -
FUCHS recommendations
· ACEA C2
· ACEA A5/B5
· API SL
· ILSAC GF-4
PI60475e, PMA, 04.10.2012, Page 1
CHARACTERISTICS
Density at 15 °C DIN 51757 0.863 g/ml
Kinematic Viscosity at 40°C DIN 51562-1 45.7 mm²/s
Kinematic Viscosity at 100°C DIN 51562-1 8.7 mm²/s
Viscosity Index DINI ISO 2909 172
Flash Point, CoC DIN ISO 2592 230 °C
PI60475e, PMA, 04.10.2012, Page 2

 

[skyship]

Approvals
· -
FUCHS recommendations
· ACEA C2
· ACEA A5/B5
· API SL
· ILSAC GF-4

That's why they find it a tough sell in Germany, no approvals just their own recommendations. It might be OK but it's hard to tell without a full VOA.

Engine Oil with new XTL-technology in path-breaking viscosity class and globally unique Zinc-free Additive Technology

There is no way I would put a Zinc free oil in my engine until some chap proves that the alternate anti wear products can be mixed in such a way as to do the same job as well as the Zinc based compounds do. Obviously I presume it is cheaper not to use Zinc and get the marketing folks to promote XTL alternatives. How much are they selling a 5 ltr can for???
I kind of think if you want to use a German oil, Liqui Moly is defintely the way to go.

 

[Izb]

LM doesn't have any ester oils...
But Fusha has (street GT1 0W-20 and all racing oils).

 

[bigjl]

AMD Tuning in Essex, long established VW specialist that ran a Golf in BTCC till recently has always been a user of FUCHS products. German & Swedish is a big parts supplier that sells good quality parts, now for all cars, formally as the name would suggest , German stuff was No1 then Volvo and Saab. I used them when I ran a Garage years ago in North London and they always stocked FUCHS till recently when they started stocking Carlube products by Tetrosyl.

Lots of people in the UK VeeDub scene are fans of Fuchs products, biggest limitation now is availability. Prices are very competitive. Opie sell decent semi £17 for 5 litres as an example, and well under £30 for full synth.