Castrol Edge 5W-30, 5516mi, 3.6DI Saturn Outlook

[BigTallV]

My first winter run of Edge in my GM 3.6DI. This was a brutal run of short trips, low temps, idling and remote start use. Sample was taken after a short 4 minute drive to my local mechanics shop.

Code:


Sample Date Mar 28/11 Sep 02/10 May 17/10 Mar 03/10 Dec 04/09 Aug 31/09

Lab Name FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE n/a n/a

Oil EDGE 5W-30 EDGE 5W-30 M1 5W-30 M1 5W-30 M1 5W-30 Saturn Bulk 5W-30

Filter ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48

Total Miles 29,146 miles 22500 miles 16,412 miles 12,400 miles 8404 miles 3879 miles

Miles on oil 5516 miles 6088 miles 4012 miles 3996 miles 4525 miles 3879 miles

OLM 42% 56% 71% 57% n/a n/a

Make up oil 0 0 0 0 0 0



Aluminum....... 9 7 4 8

Chrome......... 2 2 2 3

Iron........... 70 60 63 101

Copper......... 8 12 9 14

Lead........... 0 0 1 1

Tin............ 0 0 0 0

Molybdenum..... 103 107 118 103

Nickel......... 0 1 0 0

Manganese...... n/a n/a n/a n/a

Silver......... 0 0 0 0

Titanium....... 0 0 0 0

Potassium...... 0 0 1 3

Boron.......... 24 26 57 51

Silicon........ 11 14 8 16

Sodium......... 0 3 5 16

Calcium........ 2922 2903 2502 2330

Magnesium...... 13 11 12 14

Phosphorus..... 676 680 706 693

Zinc........... 923 849 850 832

Barium......... 0 0 0 0

Vanadium....... 0 0 0 0

Antimony....... 0 0 0 0

Lithium........ 1 1 1 1

Berylium....... 0 0 0 0



Flashpoint F... n/a n/a n/a n/a

Fuel %......... (4.01) (2.42) (3.18) (2.80)

Antifreeze..... Neg Neg Neg Neg

Water.......... Neg Neg Neg Neg

Insoluables.... n/a n/a n/a n/a

cSt Visc@40C... 47.6 56.9 52.4 (50.1)

cSt Visc@100C.. 8.68 9.97 9.40 (8.91)

TBN............ 5.70 6.56 7.04 5.85

TAN............ --- 5.68 --- ---


Our driving mix is unlikely to change, so it would appear that the venerable Edge did not fair well and is not ideal for my application. Have installed PP (SN) and a PF48 for the spring/summer.

Questions or comments are always welcome.

Regards,
/BTV

 

[gathermewool]

I'm not sure that I'd read too much into the Fe, if that's what you mean when you say it didn't fair too well. Looks like it handled that fuel dilution pretty well. I'd suggest running the OLM down until it tells you to change the oil.

 

[ltslimjim]

That was a lot of fuel, ouch. Not sure if I like the Iron numbers, but perhaps it's typical for the engine and severe service it sees?

 

[chubbs1]

I would look into what is causing the fuel dilution. 4% fuel in the oil should not be caused by a short trip. Have you looked into a tuning?

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
I'm not sure that I'd read too much into the Fe, if that's what you mean when you say it didn't fair too well. Looks like it handled that fuel dilution pretty well. I'd suggest running the OLM down until it tells you to change the oil.


GM (Canada) has forwarded a letter to me (we're in the VIN breaks) for having the OLM reprogrammed. I haven't had opportunity to take it in yet. This re-tuning of the OLM will accelerate getting to zero. So I'm hesitant to take even a venerable oil like Edge down to the wire. TBN suggests Edge still had some legs in it, but the fuel and shearing... those were the numbers that make me think otherwise.

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
That was a lot of fuel, ouch. Not sure if I like the Iron numbers, but perhaps it's typical for the engine and severe service it sees?


The 3.6DI seems to show a little bit higher in the Fe. It may be speculation on my part but the DI design may have something to do with that (fuel wash from high pressure injection).

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: chubbs1
I would look into what is causing the fuel dilution. 4% fuel in the oil should not be caused by a short trip. Have you looked into a tuning?


Allow me to reiterate, 4% fuel was likely caused by my mix of dominantly short-trip driving. I commute to work by train, my house is only a few short minutes from there. My vehicle sees some highway action on weekends - but by far is short tripping around town.

Likewise, my local mechanic is just a few minutes away - so the sample was unfortunately taken after yet again a short trip. Didn't get opportunity to take a nice 30 minute highway run. I will *plan* my next OCI more appropriately. But my driving mix will not change.

I don't believe GM has a tune available for the 3.6DI, but I've often wondered if it runs rich due to tailpipe soot deposits.

 

[unDummy]

Canada? I'd break the rules and use a stout 0w30 or 0w40(Esso XD3), PetroCan Duron-E, any known thick 0w30(Syntec), or any 0w40.

The fuel dilution is there. Nothing you can do about it. So, add 2 more points of viscosity to deal with it and see how it goes.

Another option is a Puradyn, OilDynamics, Klarol or... heated bypass filter. This way, the fuel if evaporated out of your oil.

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Canada? I'd break the rules and use a stout 0w30 or 0w40(Esso XD3), PetroCan Duron-E, any known thick 0w30(Syntec), or any 0w40.


Actually owners manual verbage allows for 0W-30 in Winter. Thanks for the suggestions. I've been watching UOA results from other 3.6DI owners and definitely GC did well, XD looks like a fine choice too and am holding out hope for seeing results of the new PC.

 

[demarpaint]

The more I read and learn about these DI engines the less I like them. Considering the fuel I think the oil did well.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
The fuel dilution is there. Nothing you can do about it.


Yes. That is true. We have seen more than enough UOAs of this same engine to see that in winter driving fuel dilution is the norm.

Originally Posted By: unDummy
So, add 2 more points of viscosity to deal with it and see how it goes.


That is a reasonable recommendation and that is why I use XD 0W30 in this same engine in the winter.

 

[addyguy]

Those reports just hurt to look at.

These DI engines are going to become another '3.4 V-6 fail' story, with fuel dilution leading to excessive wear, and early engine death. I just know it!

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Those reports just hurt to look at.

These DI engines are going to become another '3.4 V-6 fail' story, with fuel dilution leading to excessive wear, and early engine death. I just know it!


And yet the OP is using quality lubes and playing it safe by not taking the OLM to below 45%.

The great majority would be using any old oil, often waiting until the OLM has run down before changing it.

Just thinking out loud here...If there really is a problem having UOAs 'worse' than those shown above then when do we think these DI engines would begin to exhibit performance issues and worse?

 

[addyguy]

With GM engines having a 100k PT warranty, some problems will maybe show up at the 90-120k mile mark.

I'll be impressed if the majority of these engine make it past 200k miles easily.......

 

[BigTallV]

May have to adjust my plan of trying to keep this ride for 10 years if that's the case.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: BigTallV
May have to adjust my plan of trying to keep this ride for 10 years if that's the case.


Dont give up yet BTV! Maybe your current fill of PP SN will be the oil that is the real deal for your Outlook or if not *and* if your are good I will let you use some XD 0W30 next fall

.

 

[BigTallV]

I await the results of PC. Could be the 'holy grail' of oil for the DI.

 

[ZZman]

They do shed alot of wear metals.

TBN nice and high.

Don't look to far into this, as you said it was a brutal run and it is hard to compare other runs apples to apples because the conditions could have been slightly or even drastically different.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
They do shed alot of wear metals.

TBN nice and high.


I can see the value of the TBN # if the UOA has shown well in terms of wear #s (ie an idea how much 'longer' one could take the oil) but when a UOA doesn't look so good re wear metals than it doesn't seem to me to matter anymore i.e. I want that oil out regardless of how sexy that TBN shows.

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Don't look to far into this, as you said it was a brutal run and it is hard to compare other runs apples to apples because the conditions could have been slightly or even drastically different.


I kind of agree but there have now been enough UOAs of this same engine also for severe OCIs with 'better' UOA scores.

 

[ZZman]

Looks like it is tough on any oil.

Remember that UOA's are not the best indicator of normal wear. They are just a tool to use.

People would be shocked at what is considered excessive wear on UOA's. You are not even close.....