4R100 Trans issue after fluid change 98 Expedition

[Fitz98]

I just finished a transmission filter change and offline flush on my 1998 Exedition with the 4R100 Transmission.
I used Valvoline Dex/Merc Max Life.
The transmission shifts smoother and better than ever and I am really happy with the immediate results.
I do however have a couple new problems since the fluid change.
Has anyone heard of the following issues?
1) A quick decelleration will ocassionally cause the vehicle to stall when approaching stop.
2) When I shift the selector into low gear while at a stop, the rpm's drop significantly and will ocassionally stall the vehicle.
3) This condition sometimes happens shifting into reverse as well.

Also changed fuel filter and PCV Valve at the same time.
Should also note that there is a rust hole in the filler tube (Don't know if there is any relevance.)

 

[unDummy]

Defective fuel filter or PCV. What brand?

 

[The motor guy]

Rust hole in the new one? And you installed it? btw to check if the fuel filter is good. Just shake it. If you hear things rattling around then there is something wrong with it.

 

[Trav]

It may have gotten a little bit of junk in the TCC control valve
(Torque Converter Control),did you do a line off exchange of just a drain and fill?Filter/screen changed?

I assume you mean a rust hole in the tranny fill tube?
Fix that ASAP! if any water goes down the tube through the hole either from under the hood or from the wheel well it can seriously damage the tranny.

 

[Fitz98]

Good advice regarding the hole in the fill tube, thanks.
Did a line off fluid exchange.

 

[Trav]

Try 2 bottles of lubguard red in it. 1oz per qt,this is a big unit.
It sometimes helps with things like torque converter shudder and failure to release completely.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sounds like the TC isn't disengaging. Try Trav's solution. You had some other symptoms beforehand I recall, so this isn't entirely surprising.

 

[Fitz98]

Does it sound suspicious at all that it's just reverse and low gear?
What does the lube guard do and where can I get it?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Fitz98
Does it sound suspicious at all that it's just reverse and low gear?
What does the lube guard do and where can I get it?


Most tranny shops carry it.

Did you use the procedure I described for changing the fluid?

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: Fitz98
Does it sound suspicious at all that it's just reverse and low gear?
What does the lube guard do and where can I get it?


Search Lubegard and you'll find their website. If you been around here long enough, you'll find that most people have a good experience with it. Truthfully, the number of complaints from people who use it I've seen is about Zero compared to about 50 positives. The only complaints I've seen are those who are against additives.

You can find it at O'Reilly - sometimes on the shelf. You would use Red or Platinum, both which they should carry. Otherwise, some Napa's also carry it. If neither has it in stock you can web order it for pick up at you local O'Reilly in a couple of days.

Red is the old standby, Platinum is the new fluid that does as Red + extras that act as a fluid convertor.

 

[Fitz98]

Thanks to everyone for their help.
I would say I have successfully finished the job, just one more question and a few comments:
Question, When I read transmission cold, the fluid level shows overfilled, when I read it hot, it shows about a half quart low. Is this normal? Should I go to the fuller side when hot, of leave it as is?

Comments:
1) I did the tranny flush as Overkill suggested. Worked ot perfectly, only problem I had was because the fill tube leaked, I had troubles matching the amount going in, to the amount coming out. I used a 10 foot clear hose clamped to the tranny return line to get the hose out from under the car, to make it an easy 1 person job.
3) I fixed the fill tube. It had a half inch hole in it.
4) Now I don't have the reverse and low issue anymore. It could be any of the following:
I repaired the hole in the fill tube. Are there any vaccuum issues that may have contributed to the reverse and low gear stalling issues?
5) Added a quart of Transmission fluid. Again, reads high when cold and low when hot.
I am thinking this may have been the biggest contributer to the problem.
6) I disconnected the battery cable overnight to reset the computer, took it for a drive to relearn the settings with the new fluid. Perhaps this was a contributing factor as well.

So in summarry, other than the question about the fluid level, this was a successful project. Thanks to all for the help and advise along the way.

 

[Letter_K]

I can't remember exactly how he reccommended you do it. That was several threads ago. Was it run the pan dry, fill and repeat until the fluid ran clean or meet you capacity?

You want to read the fluid level hot, with the car in idle for about a minute on a flat surface. Transmission fluid expands when it is hot and you need it running to get a proper level. Check you owners manual, some reccommend shifting through the gear ranges IIRC. If you read it cold you could have improper readings due to fluid draining back in from your cooler lines, torque converter, etc.

The first time I did a fluid change 20 years ago, I filled the fluid to the spec level and didn't check it hot. The transmission skiped and acted funny. I took it to a transmission shop told him my mom had it changed and it was acting funny. I think the guy poured in about 2 quarts. Thanksfully, I've done a lot more fluid changes since then and know my way aroudn a car a little better.

Just add a little at a time when you are close - you'll be surprised on some cars how quickly the level climbs. My Buick went from middle of the hot lines to a 1/3" overfilled when I added a bottle of lubegard 10oz.

 

[OVERKILL]

Good to hear it is behaving now

 

[Fitz98]

Thanks, I will target the fill level as accurate when it's read hot. Will also take your advice on reading the manual for their recommendations.
I am just a little concerned, because I drained 20 quarts, and have put in 23 so far. I know I ended up with a lot on the ground due to the hole in the filler tube, but I didn't think it was 3 quarts (but I guess that's possible)


BTW the flush was slightly modified.
Drained pan and changed filter.
Refilled pan
Disconnected return line from tranny
Started vehile and drained a percentage of the pan fill. (In my case about 5 quarts)...pan holds 6.
Shut off vehicle
Added 5, start and drained 5, added 5, drained 5 and so on.
Shifted through all gears during a couple of the drains.
Flushed through an additional 2 quarts.
Top off as required to capacity.

 

[38sho]

I'm suprised nobody is mentioning that perhaps the vehicle has another issue besides the tranmission. In fact, I don't see how having it low, or different kind of fluid, will make it do this. If anything that would just make it slip.

I really suspect your recent pcv replacement and fuel filter. Did you put the fuel filter on the correct direction(be suprised how often I see this messed up lately!) Also if the pcv system leaks the expedition's will run like junk. You could have moved the line and messed up the elbow on them, which is a real touchy son of a [censored] that would be replaced often if I owned one. It can suck in, collapse, put a gash in it and leak because the material they use dryrots over time.

I would inspect all of that and maybe go about cleaning up the IAC valve and TB, then reset the comptuer again and let it relearn idle......... Them fords seem to have issues in these departments FYI.....

 

[Letter_K]

Originally Posted By: 38sho

I really suspect your recent pcv replacement and fuel filter. Did you put the fuel filter on the correct direction(be suprised how often I see this messed up lately!) Also if the pcv system leaks the expedition's will run like junk. You could have moved the line and messed up the elbow on them, which is a real touchy son of a [censored] that would be replaced often if I owned one. It can suck in, collapse, put a gash in it and leak because the material they use dryrots over time.

I would inspect all of that and maybe go about cleaning up the IAC valve and TB, then reset the comptuer again and let it relearn idle......... Them fords seem to have issues in these departments FYI.....



Yep, you are right about the other issues too. Probably should check for a crack in any of the rubber hoses/boots or a vac line that might have been disconnected. Are you noticing any loping when idling.

I'm not a professional mechanic, but the dying while decelerating sounds like IAC, but I doubt that would just crop up. TCC lockup, but at what point does lockup occur on this transmission?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Letter_K
Originally Posted By: 38sho

I really suspect your recent pcv replacement and fuel filter. Did you put the fuel filter on the correct direction(be suprised how often I see this messed up lately!) Also if the pcv system leaks the expedition's will run like junk. You could have moved the line and messed up the elbow on them, which is a real touchy son of a [censored] that would be replaced often if I owned one. It can suck in, collapse, put a gash in it and leak because the material they use dryrots over time.

I would inspect all of that and maybe go about cleaning up the IAC valve and TB, then reset the comptuer again and let it relearn idle......... Them fords seem to have issues in these departments FYI.....



Yep, you are right about the other issues too. Probably should check for a crack in any of the rubber hoses/boots or a vac line that might have been disconnected. Are you noticing any loping when idling.

I'm not a professional mechanic, but the dying while decelerating sounds like IAC, but I doubt that would just crop up. TCC lockup, but at what point does lockup occur on this transmission?


This tranny has a very interesting lock/unlock shift strategy to keep the engine in its power band. So, under acceleration you get:

first unlocked-> lock -> 2nd unlocked -> lock -> 3rd unlocked -> lock -> 4th unlocked -> lock

It does not pull power at any point during these transitions; full-power upshifts though all 4.

It has a twin-disk torque converter that IS known to be a problem point (though normally only in HD applications behind the 7.3L PSD). If the TCC solenoid is acting up, it WILL stall the engine. It is not the first time I've heard of this happening.

I'm not a mechanic either, but I play one on TV. I also stayed at a Holiday Inn last night

 

[Fitz98]

Thanks for the feedback, however I think the problem is now cured.

I was curious if the transmission works on any vaccuum, and if so, the 1/2" hole in the filler tube, may have had an adverse effect.

I think that low oil was another contributer, since it was reading full when cold, but not when hot.

So in summary, somewhere between fixing the hole, adding another quart of fluid and resetting the computer fixed all known issues previously reported.

BTW, I was quite obsessive about making sure the fuel filter went on the right way, although, I can see how that could be overlooked...and for the record, those quick connect fittings suck to remove. Maybe because I cheaped out and bought the 7 dollar removal tool instead of the 20 dollar one.

 

[Fitz98]

Coming back to this for a minute...
I did a plug change and while I had it apart, I noticed there was some bad issues with PCV system. Vaccuum line had a hole in it right at the manifold. Also the 3 90's at the valve cover were collapsed. I have replaced them, and having no issues now, but looking back, the issue with the tranny in reverse and low gear was corrected before the PCV corrections.
I was recently changing coolant and when running at about 3K RPM, some tranny fluid came out under the car. I was on a slight decline and am guessing I was a little too full and it came out the vent? All seems to be fine since the small leak happened that one time.